Date: 08-09-96 (00:00) Nlumber: 675 of 704 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: brijsmith@aol.com, BRIJSMITH Subj: Re: Masons in Civil War- VERY Civil! Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Message-ID: <4ued43$7nl@newsbf02.news.aol.com> In New Hampshire, there were several Military Lodges, which went with the troops when they left the state. One, Hughes Military Lodge, formed in Concord N.H and left with the 5th New Hampshire Volunteers in 1861. From Child's "Fifth New Hampshire" Regimental history: “The day after the battle of Antietum, the Fifth New Hampshire formed the picket line along the edge of the cornfield, where Richardson’s Division had fought. The reserve was in the edge of the corn, and the pickets about middle way of the field, concealed in the corn, as the sharpshooters of the enemy fired on all who undertook to walk around on the battlefield at that locality. Early in the morning, one of the wounded rebels, who had laid just outside the pickets, called on of the New Hampshire men and handed him a little slip of paper, on which he had, evidently with great difficulty, succeeded in making some mystic signs in a circle, with a bit of stick wet in blood. The soldier was begged to hand the paper to some Freemason as soon as possible, and he took it to Colonel E.E. Cross of his regiment. The colonel was a Master Mason, but could not read the mystic token, it belonging to a higher degree. He, therefor, sent for Captain J. B. Perry, of the Fifth, who was a member of the 32ed degree of Freemasonry, and showed him the letter. Captain Perry at once said there was a brother Mason in great peril, and must be rescued. Colonel Cross instantly sent for several brother Masons in the regiment, told the story, and in a few moments four “brothers of the mystic tie” were crawling stealthy through the corn, to find the brother in distress. He was found, placed on a blanket, and at great risk drawn out of the range of the rebel rifles, and then carried to the Fifth New Hampshire hospital. He proved to be First Lieutenant Edon of the Alabama volunteers, badly wounded in the thigh and breast. A few hours and he would have perished. Lieutenant Edon informed the brethren of another wounded Mason, who, when brought out, proved to be lieutenant-colonel of a Georgia regiment. The tow wounded rebel officers received the same attention as the wounded officers of the Fifth, and a warm friendship was established between men who, a few hours before, were in mortal combat.” Captain Perry was a District Deputy Grand Master when he enlisted, a member of the Scottish Rite and York Rite bodies. He was killed at Fredricksburg, where he carried the Fifth New Hampshire colors, and as he was dying, gathered the flag of his country and kissed it with his last breath. Of all the Union Regiments at Fredricksburg, the Fifth carried closest to the stone wall. B.J. Smith P.M. Rising Sun #39 Nashua N.H. Date: 08-09-96 (20:44) Number: 677 of 704 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: chalka@cwconnect.ca, ANTHONY CHALK Subj: Honesty. Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Bell Global Solutions Message-ID: <320C0591.77C1@cwconnect.ca> Freemasonry, by it's very nature is political and religious to a thinking person, isn't it? Religion, is defined as a belief and or worship of God, a system of faith, and a set of moral beliefs. Politics, is science of government, or social organization. Freemasonry like church has ritual. Freemasonry has a concept of a creative force, call it Grand Architect, (instead of God if you like). You might not be theologically based. Yet symbolism has been part of religion for centuries hasn't it? What about theosophy? The World Council of Churhes now recognizes theosophy as a belief system. Isn't the real purpose to all that outward ritual, inner result? Ritual is quite religious, it is cross cultural. Contemplation on symbolic ritual is theosophy, and hence religion. Likewise, having codes of conduct enforced (such as by-laws) by a system of degrees is politics, isn't it? Or will I to be considered profane for stating this? I respectfuly suggest that the nature of Freemasonry is religious and political. I also state that hierarchy and secrecy spell conspiracy to many. I have spoken with some masons who seemed to me to be elitist and secretive. I don't mean offence, mearly to "shed light" on what I see the issue as. How can one talk of Masonry and not religion or politics? Date: 08-10-96 (02:32) Number: 678 of 704 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais2.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: ITEM: Hitler/Freemasonry Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <4ugsc4$mla@news2.cais.com> The full name of the author of the Goebbels book is David Irving. St. Martin's Press originally intended to publish the book as a work of scholarship until it became clear to them that Mr. Irving was no scholar but a polemicist or apologist for the Nazis and that the book was a big sloppy wet kiss for Goebbels. They withdrew the book from printing; I believe that it has since been accepted for printing by a minor house with less aversion to scandal than a respected publisher like St. Martin's. David Irving was indeed involved with the question of the faked Hitler diaries and eventually conceded that they were forgeries. Here is a Web site for further information from the anti-Irving POV: http://www.jewish.com/bk960412/usdrops.htm Or you can look at http://www.kaiwan.com/~ihrgreg/jhr/v14n6p2_Weber.html for some self-congratulatory rhetoric from Holocaust-deniers (they call themselves "revisionists," a term with many other meanings in history; I consider it an attempt to render the unspeakable acceptable). Was there a Holocaust? I know too many people who were _there_ to accept anything that the "revisionists" say. The Nazis _themselves_ documented their own actions, proud that they would be the ones to rid the earth of Jews. Of course, when it became clear that they were going to lose the war, they attempted to destroy much of the film and other documentation that they had created to memorialize the "final solution," but plenty survived. Read the records of the Nuremburg Trials. Did Adolf Eichmann _deny_ that he had murdered Jews? No, his defense, in words that history will remember, was, "I was only following orders." If there is any purpose at all to Freemasonry outside the Lodge, it should be to stamp out the poison of intolerance and bigotry once and for all, so that the world will never again witness a Holocaust. How far we have to go is seen by the headlines that emanate from Bosnia, Northern Ireland, the Sudan, and Iraq. Would that there was such a fantasized Masonic conspiracy and that it were successful! There would be a lot more peace, toleration, and freedom in the world than we witness today. Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Date: 08-10-96 (01:10) Number: 679 of 704 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: keithwalk@aol.com, KEITHWALK Subj: Re: Honesty. Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Message-ID: <4uh5jn$67s@newsbf02.news.aol.com> Reply-To: keithwalk@aol.com (KeithWalk) Dear Anthony.... When examining any organization or endeavor, it is very easy to subjectively rationalize its attributes based on what may, or may not be, true. Freemasonry, like many organizations, utilizes ritual. Is the use of ritual to be construed as "religious"? Look at graduation ceremonies in schools and especially colleges. Organizations such as the Boy Scouts and the military use ritual extensively. Whenever we say the "Pledge of Allegiance" to our Flag, swear to say the truth in court, or buy flowers for our wife or girl friend, we are practicing some form of custom or ritual. Ritual is all around us and an everyday occurrence. Those who view Freemasonry as a religion, or even religious, may need to very carefully define exactly what those attributes are and what exactly it takes to satisfy those characteristics. Masonry is NOT a religion, nor a theosophy. It's an old argument of those who invariably believe whatever they will. Prejudice and intolerance is very much a characteristic of our enlightened society. Masonry has always claimed to be non-poltical though past history, especially in Europe, has indicated otherwise. Again, within the United States, the Fraternity has an unwritten rule that politics, or specific poltical causes other than humanitarian, will not be tolerated within the Lodge. Many Masons have been active in poltics, but I would challenge someone to find instances, in this century, where that membership has proved to be an advantage to the Craft. Could the same be said, today, of right-wing conservative fundamentralists? Your observations have merit, because they expose an important misunderstanding as to the obvious and subtle nature of Fraternal organizations. Masonry is today as about as secret as Swiss cheese. Go to virtually any book store and you will find something on the Craft. Everyone likes conspiracies, but there are better places to look for it. All the best, Keith F. Walker, PM, PGO Member of the Comm. on Masonic Educ., Grand Lodge of So.Dak. Date: 08-10-96 (12:28) Number: 689 of 704 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: tmorgen@ix.netcom.com, T MORGENTHALER Subj: Re: Honesty. Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Netcom Message-ID: <4uhva1$hla@dfw-ixnews3.ix.netcom.com> In <320C0591.77C1@cwconnect.ca> Anthony Chalk writes: > >Freemasonry, by it's very nature is political and religious to a thinking >person, isn't it? Religion, is defined as a belief and or worship of >God, a system of faith, and a set of moral beliefs. Politics, is science >of government, or social organization. > ......snipped......... > Dear Anthony, Freemasonry is many things to many people in many lands; the reason for the complexity of the craft. Trying to study masonry with your own perspective will result in your own conclusions regarding what masonry is or is not; and that is OK. To the freemason, the craft is not a religion for a number of reasons that have been posted on this newsgroup repeadedly for a long time. If you do not agree with the reasons freemasons do not see their craft as a religion, you are entitled to do so. A personal opinion has no bearing on the craft other than for individual satisfaction. After reading this newsgroup for a time, you will notice the folks that are compulsed to share the reasons why they feel freemasonry is a religion. However, the vast majority of these people are not masons and therefore, their perspectives have no bearing on the craft whatsoever. The very nature of freemasonry is something these same people seem to have a very difficult time with; that of true freedom to pursue your religion, any religion in the manner that is comfortable to you. There are no religions that tolerate total freedom of thinking; in fact there are many that insist that all of their congregation think, act and do exactly what the church tells them to do. In looking back over the centuries, Galileo brings to mind the power of the church and the penalities for thinking for one's self. Time has changed little other than the power of the church is now curtailed and I believe that the church today would truly like to have that power returned to them as evident with the political movement of the religious right here in the U.S. Anthony, there is no rule or regulation prohibiting the discussion of religion or politics outside of the lodge room and certainly there are masons who do discuss these topics. The lodge room however, is the sanctuary from the topics that will inevitably cause strife, and unrest in mankind. In our nature, we seem to have a real problem allowing our neighbors the privilege to believe as individuals. In masonry, there are many valuable lessons that we learn. To this writer, the most valuable of all is the tolerance of other brothers' faiths, pursuits, and differences. That difference between us, removes masonry from any reference of being a religion by the standards that make religions what they are in the world today. Regards, Ted Morgenthaler, PM, Central City, Colorado. l Date: 08-10-96 (14:33) Number: 692 of 704 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: jcarroll@clover.cleaf.com, JOHN CARROLL Subj: Re: ITEM: Hitler/Freemasonry Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Message-ID: <320CE41D.6E72@clover.cleaf.com> Dr. Roger M. Firestone wrote: > I don't plan to respond to too much more of Ken's stuff; he's getting > pretty repetitive, and those things have been well addressed already. > Of course, if he comes up with another novelty, like his favorable > recommendation of the Irving book on Goebbels, we can all take another > shot. But it's pretty clear who he is, what he is, and where he is > coming from, and he has condemned himself in his own words and style. > > Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Bretheren, I too have grown weary of reading Kens drivel. It was fun and interesting at first to see how a grown man (I suppose him to be) can be so confused. But, as of his last post, he has shown quite a bit of disrespect for all Freemasons, all persons of the Jewish faith, and Brother Firestone in particular. Ken has resorted to the lowest form of communication, name calling and sophomoric wit. I am not coming to Brother Firestones aid because he needs none from me. He does his heritage and our fraternity a great service by giving his time to argue with these people. I am personally proud to call him Brother. John Carroll Lothrop Lodge #21 Grand Lodge of Texas Date: 08-10-96 (14:51) Number: 693 of 704 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: jcarroll@clover.cleaf.com, JOHN CARROLL Subj: Re: Honesty. Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Message-ID: <320CE84D.695E@clover.cleaf.com> joken@wild.net wrote: > > Take the ole doc, one minute he is his god's gift to masonry then the > next line, he is lying like a dog. So much for masonry making good > men better.......but then they didn't have much to work with in the > first place. Ken, I do not know how long you have been using the internet or posting in newsgroups, but I believe there is something you should be aware of. It is called netiquette. A combination of the words internet and etiquette. There are several places on the Web that you can find articles on "net-etiquette". You have violated one of the first rules of netiquette by defaming (or commenting on) one person while replying to some other persons post. This is in extremly bad taste. Please try to keep your comments about Dr. Firestone in replies TO Dr. Firestones posts, not someone else's. JC Date: 08-10-96 (22:36) Number: 694 of 704 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais3.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: ITEM: Hitler/Freemasonry Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <4uj2u7$ecc@news2.cais.com> Thanks, Bro. Carroll (a famous name around this part of the world, on the Maryland side of the Potomac), for your moral support. BTW, did you notice how Ken expressed his hope that both Ted M. and I would be "kicked out" of Freemasonry for our "lies?" (Not that he specifies what falsehoods--other than disagreeing with his weltanschauung--I have propagated, of course.) You know you have drawn blood, metaphorically, when your debating opponent resorts to expressing the desire that you will be silenced. Why Masonry would have the desire to suspend or expel spokesmen on its behalf is not something Ken can explain. But he would certainly be happier if there were fewer Masons with the knowledge of the Craft, and its history--and that of the nature and history of Western religious philosophy--to deal with him. Our speaker last night at the Scottish Rite in Alexandria, VA was the Grand Historian and Grand Archivist of the Supreme Council (SJ of US), Rev. Fox. He spoke at length on the recidivism of the anti-Masonic movement, particularly focussing on how it is most concerned with the Scottish Rite, SJ, and to a lesser extent on the Blue Lodge, while the York Rite, for whatever reason, receives little attention from the wackos. Although he had some explanations for it, I think that the largest reason is that Albert Pike was simply the most prolific writer who also held a major position spanning multiple states, and that makes him, and his writings, and his organization, the most visible target. (Ill. Bro. Fox spent some time on the topic of the LaRouche activists who want to have Pike's statue removed from Judiciary Square, but their brand of opposition to the Scottish Rite appears quite different from that of the Christian fundamentalists. They're still nuts, of course...) Ill. Bro. Fox suggested that we need to continue to emphasize the positive in the nature of Freemasonry--our charitable and community service work, particularly--rather than spend time refuting the foolish accusations of our critics. And he expressed concern that there are people who fear Freemasonry, who need to be reassured. It was an interesting talk, but I disagree with Bro. Fox's concern that no one should fear Freemasonry. I think that there are people who very much ought to be afraid of the Masons--for the same reason a criminal fears the constable. We are armed with the truth, and with knowledge, and with virtue, and there will always be those to whom courageous, wise, free men with truth on their side will be a source of terror. Those who lurk in the dark fear the light. Shine the light of Masonry on them and their lies and watch them scuttle like roaches for the rocks from under which they came. Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH late: 08-10-96 (23:06) Number: 695 of 704 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: brendan@omah.demon.co.uk, BREN Subj: Catholics and Freemasonry Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Message-ID: I am posting this article for the benefit of Catholic freemasons and also Catholics who are considering becoming freemasons in the hope that they will reconsider their position in light of the following. € What is the Catholic Church's official position on Freemasonry? Are Catholics free to become Freemasons? Freemasonry is incompatible with the Catholic faith. Freemasonry teaches a naturalistic religion that espouses indifferentism, the position that a person can be equally pleasing to God while remaining in any religion. Masonry is a parallel religion to Christianity. The New Catholic Encyclopedia states, "Freemasonry displays all the elements of religion, and as such it becomes a rival to the religion of the Gospel. It includes temples and altars, prayers, a moral code, worship, vestments, feast days, the promise of reward and punishment in the afterlife, a hierarchy, and initiative and burial rites" (vol. 6, p. 137). Masonry is also a secret society. Its initiates subscribe to secret blood oaths that are contrary to Christian morals. The prospective Mason swears that if he ever reveals the secrets of Masonry--secrets which are trivial and already well-known--he wills to be subject to self-mutilation or to gruesome execution. (Most Masons, admittedly, never would dream of carrying out these punishments on themselves or on an errant member). Historically, one of Masonry's primary objectives has been the destruction of the Catholic Church; this is especially true of Freemasonry as it has existed in certain European countries. In the United States, Freemasonry is often little more than a social club, but it still espouses a naturalistic religion that contradicts orthodox Christianity. (Those interested in joining a men's club should consider the Knights of Columbus instead.) The Church has imposed the penalty of excommunication on Catholics who become Freemasons. The penalty of excommunication for joining the Masonic Lodge was explicit in the 1917 code of canon law (canon 2335), and it is implicit in the 1983 code (canon 1374). Because the revised code of canon law is not explicit on this point, some drew the mistaken conclusion that the Church's prohibition of Freemasonry had been dropped. As a result of this confusion, shortly before the 1983 code was promulgated, the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith issued a statement indicating that the penalty was still in force. This statement was dated November 26, 1983 and may be found in Origins 13/27 (Nov. 15, 1983), 450. --------------------------------------------------------------------- Copyright (c) 1993 Catholic Answers. Reprinted with permission from the June 1993 issue of This Rock magazine. Hope this helps, Bren. Date: 08-10-96 (18:44) Number: 696 of 704 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: bucky@kaufman.net, SANDERS KAUFMAN Subj: Re: HEY WHAT'S THE DEAL Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: BVCKVS Business Info Systems Message-ID: <01bb86e3$49dae100$3560b5cc@bucky.com> This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BB86B9.6104D900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > "Levels of Masonry I have reached"? Ken, I'm a Master Mason; there is nothing > higher. And no (real) Mason that I've ever heard has said that there is > any notion of the occult in Masonry. One of the most important things you Actually, since their are as many different cults, and occult-like organizations as there are grains of sand on the beach. To some extent, even the boy scouts are a cult. They all teach a way of life that mixes religion, and the real-world to come up with lifestyle guidelines. Although some cults, like the Catholic church take it really, really fa r and have you drink wine and eat crackers (pretending it's blood an flesh). Others, like the Scouts and Masons concentrate their rituals on such things "Doing a good turn daily" and "Being Prepared". Date: 08-11-96 (05:29) Number: 704 of 704 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais2.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: Catholics and Freemasonry Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <4ujr3c$g5c@news2.cais.com> In article , bren wrote: >I am posting this article for the benefit of Catholic freemasons and also >Catholics who are considering becoming freemasons in the hope that they >will reconsider their position in light of the following. > >€ What is the Catholic Church's official position on Freemasonry? Are >Catholics free to become Freemasons? As a later part of this posting makes clear, the material is printed from a magazine; it is not entirely certain that what follows is indeed "official" in the sense that it is the position expressed by the Vatican. Some of it may be interpretation. This material can also be found on the Web; I encountered it while looking for some further information on Gnosticism. That Web page lists Freemasonry as a "cult," along with Latter-Day Saints and Christian Science. I found it interesting that the "cults" did not include the Unification Church or Scientology; I wonder if it is because the latter two have better lawyers? I also noted that that Web page had a section denouncing "whoppers" about Catholicism. People who life in glass houses... >Freemasonry is incompatible with the Catholic faith. Freemasonry teaches a >naturalistic religion that espouses indifferentism, the position that a >person can be equally pleasing to God while remaining in any religion. Freemasonry teaches no religion. It teaches religious tolerance. Men are expected to come to Freemasonry with a firmly-founded faith of their own, and the degrees of Masonry encourage a Mason to practice his own religion. Freemasonry does not take a position on whether a person can be "equally pleasing to God" depending on his religion; it simply is not discussed in Lodge. The focus of Freemasonry is on morality--what is proper behavior on this Earth, although the source of the moral law is certainly recognized to be our Creator. It is hard to understand why these simple facts escape the authors of the magazine article. >Masonry is a parallel religion to Christianity. The New Catholic >Encyclopedia states, "Freemasonry displays all the elements of religion, >and as such it becomes a rival to the religion of the Gospel. It includes >temples and altars, prayers, a moral code, worship, vestments, feast days, >the promise of reward and punishment in the afterlife, a hierarchy, and >initiative and burial rites" (vol. 6, p. 137). The New Catholic Encyclopedia is hardly an unbiased source. Nor is all of the above true. (Vestments?) Many other organizations have the many of the same characteristics--the Boy Scouts enjoin prayer and worship on their members, and have a moral code, for example. A hierarchy is not a characteristic necessary or sufficient to make something a religion; it is simply irrelevant (does not the Army have a hierarchy, or any corporation?) to the question. Only the Scottish Rite observes days which may be characterized as "feast" days--one of them is Maundy Thursday (although this observation is being dropped because it was too much in conflict with church observations which many Masons wished to attend), and another is the Feast of Tishri (Sukkot) commemorating the date of the completion of King Solomon's Temple. Both of these are based in the Bible and can hardly be characterized as being in "rival[ry]" with the religion of the Gospel. (Jesus surely attended services on Sukkot.) Veterans' associations have memorial services, chaplains, altars, and prayers. And so on. It takes much more than the items listed to compose a religion. Masonry is a strange religion indeed which seeks no converts, demands that its members belong to another religion and practice it, neither accepts nor trains children in belief, is composed only of men, and dedicates its Lodges to Saints of another religion altogether. >Masonry is also a secret society. Its initiates subscribe to secret blood >oaths that are contrary to Christian morals. The prospective Mason swears >that if he ever reveals the secrets of Masonry--secrets which are trivial >and already well-known--he wills to be subject to self-mutilation or to >gruesome execution. (Most Masons, admittedly, never would dream of >carrying out these punishments on themselves or on an errant member). The "blood oaths" are symbolic in nature. They serve many purposes--to remind candidates of their mortality and the lesson that we have limited time to fulfill our obligations on Earth, to remind Masons that many have died for their membership in the organization (some at the hands of the Church in earlier eras and some at the hands of tyrants in our own time), and to impress on the candidate the seriousness of fraternal obligations and the extreme unworthiness of those who would break them. Does not the Catholic Church itself exact vows from its members and clergy and claim the authority to excommunicate those who violate the ordinances of the Church, with a penalty in the Afterlife for eternity that seems far more severe than any punishment meted out on this earth? Did not the Church itself condemn many in mediaeval times to "gruesome execution" (not to mention torture) for subtle heresies against orthodox belief? >Historically, one of Masonry's primary objectives has been the destruction >of the Catholic Church; this is especially true of Freemasonry as it has >existed in certain European countries. In the United States, Freemasonry >is often little more than a social club, but it still espouses a >naturalistic religion that contradicts orthodox Christianity. (Those >interested in joining a men's club should consider the Knights of Columbus >instead.) Masonry has never had the destruction of the Catholic Church as its objective, primary or secondary. But the Church certainly has made Masonry its enemy. Freemasonry has, to be sure, opposed the _temporal_ power of the Church, as it opposes any form of absolute power. Prior to the Reformation, the Church had the power of life and death in its hands and too often abused that power. But were Catholics to be oppressed by some other sect in control of the political power of the state, they would find Freemasons on their side. It is freedom of conscience we Masons seek, not the destruction of any Church; we seek only to ensure that no Church has the power to impose its will on what men shall believe. If the Catholic Church still seeks to demand that all men worship God as it dictates, then it indeed has something to fear from Masonry. But if it seeks to be only a good shepherd of its flock, seeking adherents by teaching and persuasion, then it can easily co-exist with Freemasonry. (We might recall that one of the reasons for the original "In Eminente" denunciation of Freemasonry is that Freemasonry opposed monarchy in favor of democracy and promoted a secular state. Does the Church oppose Masonry because it seeks a return to the political structures of the Middle Ages and Europe of the 17th century? If so, Masonry is hardly the most significant of the obstacles in that path!) >The Church has imposed the penalty of excommunication on Catholics who >become Freemasons. The penalty of excommunication for joining the Masonic >Lodge was explicit in the 1917 code of canon law (canon 2335), and it is >implicit in the 1983 code (canon 1374). Somehow this penalty is being rather haphazardly applied. There are Catholic legal experts who believe that it is not so implicit in the 1983 code as this article indicates. That canon basically rejects membership in any organization inimical to the Church. But Masonry is not necessarily an enemy of the Church, as already discussed. >Because the revised code of canon law is not explicit on this point, some >drew the mistaken conclusion that the Church's prohibition of Freemasonry >had been dropped. As a result of this confusion, shortly before the 1983 >code was promulgated, the Sacred Congregation for the Doctrine of the >Faith issued a statement indicating that the penalty was still in force. >This statement was dated November 26, 1983 and may be found in Origins >13/27 (Nov. 15, 1983), 450. Some legal scholars would say that an opinion issued _prior_ to the promulgation of the 1983 code was thereby _superseded_ by the new code. I don't know that this has ever been resolved. Certainly in the American legal system of statute and common law, the common law decision of an earlier time loses force when a statute on the same subject appears subsequently. I suppose someone will have to risk excommunication and proceed with an ecclesiastical trial to find out. But the Bishop in Nebraska who sought to have all Catholics involved with any part of Masonry excommunicated is still rather lonely in his position (and not in especially good odor with his fellows). >--------------------------------------------------------------------- > >Copyright (c) 1993 Catholic Answers. Reprinted with permission from the >June 1993 issue of This Rock magazine. > >Hope this helps, > >Bren. I'm not sure if it helps or not to present a rather one-sided and not entirely accurate view of a controversial issue. But we Masons don't recruit, and any Catholic who feels that he doesn't belong in Freemasonry is under no compulsion to petition for the degrees. It is my opinion that he should do so in full knowledge of the truth about Freemasonry, rather than an incorrect account of things like "indifferentism," and also full and accurate knowledge of the Church's position on what he would be doing. I think it is unfortunate that some in the Church still wish to press the point that Freemasonry is a religion when it is not, and base their opposition to the organization on a false premise, and spread that premise abroad. Manufacturing fiction about the opposition (and even the need to be opposed to something) is often a sign of weakness and insecurity. There are how many million Catholics in the world and how many Freemasons? Is the Catholic Church really worried about an organization it outnumbers by 100-1? Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Date: 08-11-96 (17:12) Number: 712 of 721 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: nancys@awod.com, NANCY SVAGERKO Subj: Re: Re: Genuinely Curious Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Message-ID: <4ul495$rap@battery.awod.com> In article <4ujc0g$m5a@Usenet.Logical.NET>, hiram1@capital.net says: > >In the Eastern Star in New York State, a woman need not have a relative >who is a mason. She only needs to have a Mason be one of the signatories >on her Petition. > > > >WHENCE CAME YOU >W.'. Donald C. Moore > >`[1;32;42mNet-Tamer V 1.05.1 - Registered > This sometimes leads to problems when an Eastern Star that does not have Masonic ties tries to visit in other jurisdictions. I know here is SC we must establish the relationship on which the person joined the order before they may sit in chapter. The relationship must comform to the requirements in our ritual. Nancy Date: 08-11-96 (16:06) Number: 714 of 721 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: mmorriso@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu, MORRISON Subj: Re: The Ascension or Destruction? Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) :On Mon, 5 Aug 1996 15:39:18 -0500, "Paul D. Lanier" wr ote: >I am not certain you understand what you're talking about. >How can scientists, and prophets or sorcerers work together? >How will you be able to tell the difference between good and evil, >considering you seem willing to drop all rational judgment for >a vision? Can humans actually save themselves? Planet Earth is a prison compound for the criminally insane. The very confusion which you express in your post is the reason why you are "here". Until you learn some basic manners you are doomed to a repeat offender status that will condemn you to an endless cycle of rebirth to one of the many penal colonies within the Hologram Universe. >Historically, humans have always found loopholes in even the most >decent of political systems to do evil, devious and destructive >things. I am beginning to think human nature is criminal in a >basic way, and that only a omnipotent God can redeem his marred >creation. Only an "omnipotent", omniscient, and omnipresent God could ever be expected to be "perfect". A God who demands perfection from those who only see bits and pieces of "reality" should be crucified. >I am not saying that prophetic or moral visions are evil in themselves, >but that one's reason should not be suspended and that it appears that >salvation of individuals or of mankind or of the universe cannot depend >Primarily on the Choice of individual humans (even as a collective). ABSOLUTELY FREAKING-A RIGHT! NEVER GIVE YOUR MIND OVER TO THOSE WHO UNDER THE GUISE OF "RELIGION/PATRIOTISM/KINSHIP" WANT TO MAKE YOU THEIR OWN PERSONAL MONKEY BOY. >Peace, Grace, Love, and Truth Tolerance, Courage, Forgiveness, and Insight... >lanierp Morrison Iowa City, IA USA mmorriso@blue.weeg.uiowa.edu Date: 08-12-96 (20:42) Number: 725 of 734 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: mstiler@genmagic.com, MICHAEL STILER Subj: Re: Honesty. Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: General Magic, Inc. Message-ID: <4uo4ut$5mq@cnn.genmagic.com> joken@wild.net writes: >Anthony Chalk wrote: Hiya again, Ken! >->Freemasonry, by it's very nature is political and religious to a >->thinking person, isn't it? Religion, is defined as a belief and or worship >->of God, a system of faith, and a set of moral beliefs. Politics, is >->science of government, or social organization. >Sure it is, there is no disputing the fact that masonry is a religious >and political group. However the two things that they don't want >discussed at the lodge are those two things. Why? Because they >don't want people discussing the difference of their views, and -----------------------------------------------------------^ Actually, Ken, you were only partly correct, and only up to your 'comma' above. You forgot to mention that that Masonry doesn't discuss religious and political views at the Lodge BECAUSE all it does is forment hate and discontent just as it does on these newsgroups and in public. Masonry *requires* that you be religious _before_ you ever hit the Lodge doorstep and Masonry could care less if you have ANY political beliefs. It _does_ expect you to be loyal to your country. >instead they strive to change the views of its members step by step, >towards the universal antiChrist religion and the socialistic >political views of masonry. Not even close. The VAST majority of Masons become even more involved with their OWN churches after they become Masons. >->Freemasonry like church has ritual. Freemasonry has a concept of a >->creative force, call it Grand Architect, (instead of God if you >->like). You might not be theologically based. Yet symbolism has been part >->of religion for centuries hasn't it? What about theosophy? The World >->Council of Churhes now recognizes theosophy as a belief system. >->Isn't the real purpose to all that outward ritual, inner result? Ritual >->is quite religious, it is cross cultural. Contemplation on symbolic >->ritual is theosophy, and hence religion. Likewise, having codes of conduct >->enforced (such as by-laws) by a system of degrees is politics, isn't it? >They claim to have codes of conduct and even claim to make good men >better but I only have to read the lies of people like Ted and >firestone to see that masonry in composed of some of the most vile >people on earth. Thank goodness not all masons are like those two. >Were there a code of honesty in masonry, I wonder how many others like >those two, would be kicked out? The idelas of masonry sounds good on >paper but when you get to know _some_ of the people in it, you find >that it is on the level of the KKK type groups. But Ken, your own father and brother were/are Masons - are you now saying that they would BELIEVE in the KKK? Did/do not your father and brother only act in the most honorable ways? Did/do not they subscribe to the Masonic Code of Honor? Were/are not your father and brother honest? I realize that they have not followed exactly in your footsteps religion-wise, but are you saying that they are the 'Anti-Christs' henchmen? I find that very hard to believe that you would think that, because the ideals of Masonry are even better in real life than they are 'on paper'. >->Or will I to be considered profane for stating this? I respectfuly >->suggest that the nature of Freemasonry is religious and political. >The norm for some is to attack one personally, not only in email but >in just plain out ole lies on the newsgroup. Ken, what most have been 'attacking' is your style of 'debate' on the newsgroups. I know that I've had only the nicest responses from you (and I hope from me to you) via email. It's almost like you desire to create hate and discontent on the newsgroups just for public consumption. >->also state that hierarchy and secrecy spell conspiracy to many. I >->have spoken with some masons who seemed to me to be elitist and >->secretive. I >In reading the posts in this news group, some masons claim that >masonry has no secrets while others insist that there are such. That >in itself clearyly shows that masons in general have no knowledge of >what masonry really is. As for the elitist, yep masonry has them. >Take the ole doc, one minute he is his god's gift to masonry then the >next line, he is lying like a dog. So much for masonry making good >men better.......but then they didn't have much to work with in the >first place. No Ken. ALL the Masons here on this newsgroups have stated that the ONLY 'secrets' in the Fraternity are the modes of recognition that we use to know that a person is truly a Mason - whether it be in a darkened room or out in bright daylight. That's it. And even those forms of recognition are 'knowable' if you delve deeply enough into the libraries near you. Any Mason; in fact, any PERSON joining ANY group for the first time will not know what they can and cannot speak to others about outside that group. Experience is what teaches them to know what is explainable and what is not. You were a police officer; did you not hear the term 'Badge-heavy'? Did it not USUALLY denote a new, or 'rookie' police officer that hasn't learned how to use his or her authority properly - and what they could or could NOT do? Didn't experience teach them the proper way of doing their job? >->don't mean offence, mearly to "shed light" on what I see the issue >->as. How can one talk of Masonry and not religion or politics? >In the lodge, one can't speak of religion and politics except thru its >view of religion and politics hidden in its symbolism. The desired >resulting goal of masonry is that no matter what your politics and >religion are upon entering masonry, it will be changed to the >universal masonic religion and political views, changed one degree at >a time. I fail to see how discussing how a SYMBOLIC stoneworkers TROWEL, or other implements of stonemasonry, somehow relates to creating a whole new religion based on those tools. The only thing that gets 'changed' when one becomes a Mason is simply ones perceptions of and tolerance for others. The only thing that gets changed 'one degree at a time' is the knowledge of how to build a great edifice, dedicated to God, within one's heart. I fully realize that you speak of Masonry from the outside looking in; the fact that you have two close relatives were/are Masons notwithstanding, but you simply have no 'hands-on' concept of what you're talking about. As always Ken, a pleasure talking with you, Mike -- Michael D. Stiler Sysdate Consulting Services ::internet stiler@netcom.com NRA LifeMember AMA LifeMember AOPA DAN Retreads HOG TeamOS/2 Bagpiper Master Mason 32nd degree Scottish Rite Knight Templar Shriner Sailor IronHorsemen M/C --------- Hooligans' M/C --------- SightSeers' M/C Date: 08-12-96 (21:04) Number: 726 of 734 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: mstiler@genmagic.com, MICHAEL STILER Subj: Re: The G.A. Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: General Magic, Inc. Message-ID: <4uo68n$5pj@cnn.genmagic.com> joken@wild.net writes: >rfire@cais3.cais.com (Dr. Roger M. Firestone) wrote: >->>Can any mason tell me who is this Great Architech???? >->The Great Architect of the Universe (abbreviated GAOTU) is one of the >->conventional Masonic ways to refer to Deity (God). The term was first >->coined by John Wesley, founder of the Methodist Church. Given the >->orientation of Freemasonry around the builder's art, the metaphor of >->Deity as designer and creator of the physical world is particularly apt >->for use in Lodge. It also reflects the common concept of God as the >->Creator found in all religions and uses a term that is not particularly >->characteristic of any single religion, since Masons tolerate all >->religions and accept men of all faiths, and none should feel excluded by >->any reference made to Deity in Lodge. >What he is telling you is that no matter what or who your god is, it >is the god of masonry. If you believe in the God of the Bible, then >that is the God of masonry. Other masons have other gods, and they >are also told that their god is the god of masonry. >It is like a dog that will hunt with anyone and has no loyaltiy to its >master. As long as one will say that they believe in _something_ or >_anything_ as a creator, then hey they are your brother in god and are >quite acceptable as a mason. You will also find that that this god >of the masonic religious cult allows for untruth to be said or done >against anyone who disagrees with masonry. Have you ever see the >jackets (blazers) with the little emblems on the front? Well the >bluelight lodges are just that, the pretty and nice dressing of >masonry but unbutton a couple of buttons and you will see that this >dressing hides the evil of people like the ole doc. If something >looks too good to be true, it proably is. In this day and age of few >good men, masonry's claim to make good men better does sound good, but >the facts are that many masons have the antiChrist heart of the ole >doc. Ken, what we've been trying to explain to yous is that any monotheistic God that the Mason believes in is acceptable to be used FOR MEMBERSHIP PURPOSES for those desiring initiation into Freemasonry. Since there are so many and varied Masons and their religious beliefs, Masonry will NOT FORCE you to abandon YOUR beliefs for someone elses. To this end, Masonry uses the name Gre at Architect Of The Universe, so that EVERY Mason will know that THEIR PERSONAL God is not being given short shrift - each Mason can silently put the name of their OWN PERSONAL God whereever they see "The Great Architect" being used. Since a Mason's God is their own personal God, just like your God is a personal God, it would have to be THAT God that allows a man to lie without striking the m dead, now wouldn't it? Or would it be that a person, _any_ person (you or I included) can lie, in the hopes that they won't catch Holy Hell when it comes time to be judged? Jackets with emblems? Please explain what this has to do with Masonry ( or *anything*?) as the only people I've seen with blazers are the Century 21 real estate people. A dog that will hunt with anybody? We call that a "Good dog!" The following paragraphs ARE NOT a flame! ----------------------------------------- You state above "In this day and age of few good men, masonry's claim to make good men better does sound good, but the facts are that many masons have the antiChrist heart of the ole doc" I'd like to have you explain to me how this DOESN'T relate to you as well. Since you and your church have the exact same "Few good men" to choose from, how are you and your church keeping from having the 'antiChrist heart' of those in your congregation? And what, from all you've posted here, shows us that you're one of those 'few good men'? Thanks Ken, as always a pleasure talking with you, Mike -- Michael D. Stiler Sysdate Consulting Services ::internet stiler@netcom.com NRA LifeMember AMA LifeMember AOPA DAN Retreads HOG TeamOS/2 Bagpiper Master Mason 32nd degree Scottish Rite Knight Templar Shriner Sailor IronHorsemen M/C --------- Hooligans' M/C --------- SightSeers' M/C Date: 08-12-96 (16:15) Number: 727 of 734 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: diroller@usa.pipeline.com, DAVID I ROLLER Subj: Re: Declining numbers Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Pipeline USA Message-ID: <4unlbf$lpb@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com> On Aug 11, 1996 22:16:20 in article , 'vader@csd.uu.se (]ke Eldberg)' wrote: >t that today numbers are declining, lodges have been closed >and it is difficult to recruit new brothers. Now for the question of the century!!!!! Seriously- 1 theory goes back to the Vietnam War and the distrust of the"Establishment" by many who were in college at that time. Having been active in a college fraternity, I saw personally many chapters close down and several National Fraternities close down, The answer to the problem IMHO is many pieces that have to happen at once- 1 Taking a more public stand- without getting out & letting people know who we are & what we stand for; and that to join oneMUST ask= without doing this, we will continue to have idiots like the trolls, Ankerberg, Robertson & other bigots & idiots speaking ill about us. 2- As a past GM told me, a lodge can do things without constantly saying we never did this before as long as it is not prohiubited by the codes. In other words its time for us to let our light shine by example. 3 An old tale that I heard was of 2 travelers lost in a forest- Their conclusion is one we can not ignore- if we continue on the same road we are on, our results will be the same- perhaps its time for us to try new roads. POTS Dave Roller Mosaic#218 F&AM Livermore Ca Date: 08-15-96 (03:00) Number: 762 of 777 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: acacia@rmc1.crocker.com, ACACIA PRESS, INC Subj: Re: HEY WHAT'S THE DEAL Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Crocker Communciations (crocker.com) Message-ID: The book "Christianity and American Freemasonry" by William J. Whalen (Our Sunday Visitor:1987, pgs 23-25) discusses the racism of Freemasonry at some length, "An organization dedicated to brotherhood, Masonry ironically remains a bulwark of racial segregation in the United States. By 1987, decades after most American institutions had accepted racial integration, only four of the forty-nine Grand Lodges could count even one black member in their jurisdictions. As the author of a recent scholarly study of black Freemasonry observes, "The legitimation of social intermingling between black and white Masons has remained anathema in mainstream Freemasonry."' (Handbook of Secret Organizations by Whalen) A lodge within the British military forces initiated Prince Hall with fourteen free black men in 1775 after the men had been rebuffed in their attempt to join St. John's lodge in Boston. Eventually the black Masons received a charter from the Grand Master of the Grand Lodge of England for African Lodge No. 459 (1784). Regular Masonry has continued to deny recognition to Prince Hall lodges, and individual lodges have barred black candidates by the simple method of the black cube. Except for one curious exception, Alpha Lodge No. 1 16 in New Jersey, and a handful of blacks reported to be initiated by lodges in New York and Massachusetts, regular Freemasonry remains ninety-nine and forty-four hundredths percent white. A Prince Hall Mason may not visit a white lodge, nor a white Mason visit a Prince Hall lodge, without risking Masonic punishment. Albert Pike, no friend of blacks, admitted in 1875 "Prince Hall lodge was as regular a lodge as any lodge created by competent authority. It had a perfect right to establish other lodges and make itself a Mother Lodge." When the Grand Lodge of New Jersey accepted several blacks into membership, other Grand Lodges decried the action and some severed fraternal relations with New Jersey. Mississippi was one. The Grand Master of that state wrote in 1908 "Masonry never contemplated that her privileges should be extended to a race, totally, morally and intellectually incapacitated to discharge the obligations which they assume or have conferred upon them in a Masonic lodge. It is no answer that there are exceptions to this general character of the race. We legislate for the race and not for the exceptions. We hold that affiliation with negroes is contrary to the teachings of Masonry, and is dangerous to the interest of the Fraternity of Free and Accepted Masons." The Prince Hall lodges include a number of distinguished gentlemen on their rosters such as Supreme Court Justice Marshall, Mayor Tom Bradley of Los Angeles, Dr. Benjamin Hooks of the NAACP, Mayor Andrew Young of Atlanta, and Mayor Coleman Young of Detroit. Of course, none of these black Masons would be allowed to visit a white Masonic lodge. Whether Masonry influenced Southern mores or was simply influenced itself is hard to determine. Even during the civil-rights battles of the 1960s, knowledgeable blacks discovered that many of the leaders of the segregationist movement, such as Governors George Wallace of Alabama, Orval Faubus of Arkansas, and Ross Barnett of Mississippi, were also active Masons." To learn more about Freemasonry, visit the WWW pages below... Acacia Press, Incorporated http://www.crocker.com/~acacia/index.html PO BOX 154, Montague, MA 01351 Date: 08-15-96 (03:41) Number: 763 of 777 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais2.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: Genuinely Curious Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <4uu69p$3i5@news2.cais.com> In article <320EE6F2.5C4A@ieee.org>, Dave Robling wrote: [my stuff snipped] >I don't know how ith procedure goes in other jurisdictionx, but in NY >there >is an alternate method for a woman to join the Order of Eastern Star. A >woman with no other masonic connection can still join the O.E.S. under >the >sponsorship of a MM who is an O.E.S. member. We recently initiated a >lady who >is the S.O. of a MM under this provision. > >I know it perpetuates the "women as chattel" syndrome. But at least >there is >a way for a woman to join the masonic family. Hey, I had to have _two_ Master Masons sponsor me for my membership in the Lodge, and I don't think that that made me "chattel." Everyone has to be sponsored by a member at some point. I don't see a problem. Now if this sensible idea could spread a bit beyond NY... Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Date: 08-15-96 (04:27) Number: 770 of 777 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais2.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: The G.A. Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <4uu8vg$eit@news2.cais.com> In article <4uoeug$h58@jaguar.wild.net>, wrote: [snippage] >->Freemasonry has taken so much abuse specifically because it is _not_ >a religion. It is >->a system of symbols and allegories used to instill a sense of morals >and ethics. Most >->religions are filled with dogma. These religious paradigms make it >difficult sometimes >->for people of different religions to interact. > >Communism and the universal masonic religion both have the same goal, >a one world group with one god at its head. Christian masons, when >this comes to pass, are you going to lay down your God for the masonic >god for I assure you that _your_ God will not be the god of the new >world order. Funny, but I thought that communism was atheistic. "Religion is the opiate of the masses," and all that stuff. First, there is no "universal masonic religion." This is an invention of your imagination. Or a repeated assertion for your purposes without any basis in truth. Second, Masonry has no interest in a "one world group." If we can't agree on a single Grand Lodge for the United States (or several other countries, such as Brazil, Australia, Canada, Mexico, etc.), we can hardly be planning a political union of the entire world. What would be the point, anyway? These conspiracy theorists never seem to have any reason for the conspiracy to exist. Third, Masonry tells no Christian to give up his own religion. Something like 90% or more of Masons in the US are Christians, and they attend church with proabably somewhat greater frequency than the average Christian. You just _think_ that there is a conflict between the Lodge and Christianity. Of course, if you define Christianity as being only your own intolerant version of the religion, consumed with detestation for all other religions (as we have seen you write, regarding Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, and others), and seeking ways to force its will on others, well, then I guess you have a point. But most Christians whom I know would be embarrassed to be associated with your version of the faith. >->Freemasonry eliminates the problems associate with varying dogma, >not by eliminating >->religiong or creating its own religion, but by restricting the >discussion of these >->dogma-related items in Lodge. These symbols illustrate how we > > >Interesting that the one thing that all masons have in comon, the >belief in a god, is the one thing that if forbidden to be discussed. Actually, it is a misconception that religion may not be discussed in Lodge. What is impermissible is an _invidious_ discussion of religion, discussion that would stir up ill feelings between Masons of different religions (just as partisan politics are not to be discussed in Lodge because that would likewise create ill will between Masons of different political parties). What can be discussed is the aspects of religion that all men of faith have in common. Thus I can give a talk for St. John's Day, as I did in June at Dawson Lodge in DC, pointing out the commonalities of belief related to the role and message of St. John the Baptist among many of the faiths practiced by Freemasons in the nation's capital. >should behave, not in >->order to gain everlasting life, but so that we treat all people "on >the level" and with >->respect. > >->Freemasonry does not deal with "sin" and "repentance." It deals > >No kidding. Interesting that the making of a good man better doesn't >address the topic of sin. One doesn't have to use the term "sin" to describe behavior that a man seeking self-improvement ought to avoid. Morality and ethics can be discussed from many points of view besides the religious. The Golden Rule mentions neither sin, nor repentance, nor salvation, nor redemption. Yet it provides an excellent guide to better relations with our fellow man. One does not have to speak of lying as a sin to realize that it is a character defect which leads others to distrust everything we say and that adherence to the truth, one of the tenets of Freemasonry, is a better way for one to live one's life. > > >Tolerance for other >->people's religions really bugs religious fundementalists, but masons >are more interested >->in a person's charater than if they are Buddhist, Protestant, >Jewish, Muslim, etc. > > >Once again Christian masons, here is proof that it is not the Christ >in you that is the root of your good character but in masonry's >opinon, your willingness to reject your Christ for the god of masonry. For any _sensible_ Christian, this is proof of nothing of the sort. It says _nothing_ about rejecting Christ for Masonry. It is only _you_ who say that the "good Christian" must reject all contact and fellowship with men of other faiths. That's not something that a very large proportion of Christians believe. You presume to define Christianity for all Christians by your writing, and I don't think that very many of them want you to do that. You have more than once accused me of "playing god," yet your words speak ever louder to that kind of behavior than any of mine have done. > > >->BTW part 2, I really doubt Dr. Firestone has any positive feelings >about >-> the anti-Christ. Ken seems to know a little too much about >Satan worshipping >-> for my taste. Why do you think he appears to be so >obsessed with it? > > >Seems to me I recall someone telling everyone about how Ken70452 added >up to 666. Looks to me like it is that person that is obsessed with >the topic. I certainly didn't have anything to do with that piece of ingenious gematria. But I suppose it points up your total lack of a sense of humor. As you have so frequently pointed out, often in the most offensive fashion, I am Jewish. That means I don't believe that Jesus was the Christ (Greek word for Messiah, or Mashiach in Hebrew). Therefore, I can't _possibly_ believe in an anti-Christ (which is a concept of the Christian religion anyway, and not necessarily one accepted in other than a symbolic fashion by many Christians). I don't happen to believe in the Devil, either. That concept was introduced to Kabbalistic Judaism during the Exile; you won't find a Prince of Darkness in the Jewish Scriptures (there are a couple of places, like Job, where Satan appears; the name means "adversary" and is used to denote the adversary of _mankind_, not of God--Satan is the angel charged with proving that mankind was an unworthy creation, while the archangel Michael, if I remember the legends correctly, is said to be mankind's defender in the heavenly court). It was adopted into Christianity and combined with the concept of a fallen angel by adapting the legend of Hephaestus/Vulcan, who fell from Mt. Olympus to the underworld, where he set up his forges, and is depicted in art as lame from the fall. So much for what I _don't_ believe. This is somewhat far afield from Freemasonry, but the point I would make is that I have held these beliefs and disbeliefs for much longer than I have been a Freemason. The suggestion that I have adopted some "universal masonic religion" since joining the Lodge is nothing short of ludicrous to anyone who knows me. Nor would anyone who knows any Mason well believe in such claptrap. It is only you, and the small cadre of fanatics like you, who confuse the idea of religious tolerance with some kind of other religion. It is only you, and the small number of the obsessed, who define Christianity as inherently intolerant and bigoted toward all other religions who have a problem with Freemasonry. It is too bad that you and those like you have had some success spreading your warped vision of reality to the gullible and uninformed. I suggest that you seriously reconsider what you are doing. God is Truth, and lies propagated in His Name will not be taken lightly. Find another hobby. You're not very good at this one. Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Date: 08-15-96 (20:50) Number: 771 of 777 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais3.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: HEY WHAT'S THE DEAL Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <4v02jd$sos@news2.cais.com> Printing an article from 1987 about Freemasonry (which contains quotes dating back as far as 1908) makes about as much sense as printing articles about Russia dating from 1987, when it was the controlling SFSR in the USSR, instead of a (somewhat) democratic country. Since 1987, many Grand Lodges (over a dozen) have opened fraternal relations with the PHA GL in their geographic location. Doing so has required amending Grand Lodge constitutions in almost every case, since American GLs follow a principle of exclusive territorial jurisdiction that served as an absolute barrier to PHA relations until the provision was amended. Nor have only PHA Lodges been constrained; check out the situation in Idaho sometime. With 51 Grand Lodges in the US ("regular") and 43 PHA Grand Lodges, nearly 100 GL Constitutions will have to be amended, and somewhat over 2000 acts of mutual recognition taken, each of which requires inspection visits by respective Grand Lecturers and other steps in order to be completed in proper fashion. Even with the best of goodwill on all parties--and we know that there are some in certain sections of this country who do not yet fully believe in the brotherhood of all mankind--this will take more than a few days, weeks, months, or even years. But to view Masonry of 1996 by the situation that existed in 1987 is misleading, if not dishonest. (Since Matthew Crocker's purpose is to defame Freemasonry, the distribution of outdated material which reflects negatively on the Fraternity can only be called dishonest, as it deliberately misinforms and misleads the reader to achieve his objective.) The number of GLs where "regular" (George Washington) Freemasonry has black members is almost certainly considerably larger than it was in 1987. Without knowing which four GLs were referred to (obviously New Jersey was one), it is hard to be sure whether the original figures were accurate. But two of this year's Masters in DC are black, with many other brethren of that race in evidence. I might mention that establishing relations with PHA GLs is not always simple, for they are an organization with their own history and traditions, and they are sometimes reluctant to open contacts for fear that their smaller operation would be absorbed and obliterated by the older and larger group. There is a great deal more history and politics to this issue than can be addressed here, and far more than the simplistic view given by "Our Sunday Visitor" (whose visits are apparently too brief to get all the facts). Sure, there are Masons who are racists; there are plenty of _Christians_ who are racists. Dismissing Masonry as inherently racist makes no more sense than dismissing Christianity as racist, despite the fact that 11 am Sunday has been called the most racist hour of the week. Matthew Crocker--your source for bigger and better crocks. For _real_ information about Freemasonry, from the inside, not the outside, browse at: http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~rfire/masonry Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Date: 08-15-96 (16:29) Number: 772 of 777 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: KTinfo@gnn.com, KTINFO Subj: Re: Masonic Education Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: GNN Message-ID: <4v01sk$ke1@news-e2d.gnn.com> Considering the fact that ALL of our secrets can be found within a well stocked public library (most of which are in the bible...), you should probably consider the exact manner in which you received your degrees and the modes of recognition as secret. In NJ ritual cipher books, we tend to consider the English text differently from the ciphered text, with regards to secrecy. Have fun. Date: 08-16-96 (12:15) Number: 786 of 793 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: acacia@rmc1.crocker.com, ACACIA PRESS, INC Subj: Re: freemasonry and christianity Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Crocker Communciations (crocker.com) Message-ID: Freemasonry has always been a source of concern for Christians. The Chatholic Church has viewed membership as grounds for excommunication. Here's a chapter from an old Christian Fundamentalist text written by a reformed Freemason: ________________________ Masonic Salvation; Freemasonry Exposed: The Subject Treated From A Bible Standpoint. Showing The Difference Between Masonic Religion And Bible Salvation, by Fred Husted Copyright 1996 Acacia Press, Incorporated MONTAGUE, MASSACHUSETTS. Originally Published: circa 1910 GOSPEL TRUMPET PUBLISHING COMPANY GRAND JUNCTION, MICHIGAN PUBLISHER'S PREFACE As many volumes, both opposing, and favoring Free Masonry, have been published and scattered broadcast throughout the land, yet we realize the great need of a brief work being placed in the hands of every person belonging to a secret order, or who may have any intention of joining such with the hope of bettering their condition. It is hoped that these few pages will have the desired effect, and be the means of rescuing many precious souls from the snare that is laid to entrap them and lead them on and on until redemption is beyond their reach. It is our aim to sound the alarm, and give a note of warning in due time to the great danger in pursuing the deceptive course marked out for them, leading them on into mysterious and unknown paths, bringing peril and eternal destruction to their souls. It is also intended to show the plane of Masonic religion, and compare it with the teachings of the Holy Bible. Every professing Christian should know these things, not only for their own benefit, but also for the purpose of warning their children and others against impending danger. Dear reader, if you are a member of a secret order, do not cast this book aside until you have read and re-read its pages and pondered over the truths contained therein. Your soul is in the balance, and much depends upon your decision in the matter; a wrong step will prove fatal. And to those who have escaped the snare, or have never been led into its clutches, we trust you will extend a helping hand and aid in the rescue, sparing neither time nor means in so doing, and should you consider this volume worthy the place for which it is intended, see to it that each of your friends has a copy of the same. We send it forth in the name of Jesus, asking his blessings upon it. Yours in Him,-The Publishers at Gospel Trumpet Publishing Company. CHAPTER 1: MASONIC OBLIGATIONS AMONG the various institutions of to day there are very few, if any, that are more binding in their obligations upon their members than is the Masonic order. Masonry as an institution, as a craft, owes much of its great power today as well as in times past, to the stringency of its obligations. The balance of its power is based upon two claims, that of being very ancient, as well as a very religious institution. Rob Masonry of its obligations or oaths and it would fall, so take away its boast of age or semblance of religion and the same result would follow. Mystery in itself is powerful. So Masons have shrouded their craft in mystery. There is nothing mysterious about Masonry when its cloak is taken away. There is no light in the boasted knowledge of the craft. Earthly, sensual and devilish in the extreme do we find every point of its workings when analyzed by the Spirit and the Word of God. To untie a mystery we must first look to the bands that enclose it. The Masonic obligation, it is claimed among Masons, cannot be broken. To obtain a clear idea of Masonry we must first inform ourselves as to what Masons are expected to live up to, what they are expected to do, and as the obligation must certainly cover a man's duty as a Mason, we give those duties as set forth in the obligation, that is, those that can be spoken to all ears, as there is at least one section that for reasons well known is strictly for men only. Many wonder why men consider Masonic obligations so binding especially so when their awful nature is revealed. Ministers (shall we say of the gospel?) no doubt also consider them binding, at least they attend their lodges and partake of all the nature and benefits of the craft. We now consider the nature of the obligation. The first or E. A. degree obligation contains only the duty of secrecy as respects the workings of the lodge. This duty is bound by the following penalty which is spoken by the "worshipful master" and repeated by the candidate: "To all of which I most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear with a firm and steadfast resolution to keep and perform the same without the least equivocation, mental reservation of self evasion whatsoever: binding myself under a no less penalty than that of having my throat cut from ear to ear, my tongue torn out by the roots and buried in the rough sands of the sea at low water mark where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I in the least knowingly or willfully violate or transgress this my entered apprentice obligation. So help me God and keep me steadfast." (Some lodges add, "in a due performance of the same.") There is enough of a threat conveyed in the above obligation or penalty to keep the younger initiate in subjection and wonder until he is brought a second time in reach of Masonic light where he is again sworn to keep the secrets of the F. C. degree in like manner. Four ties are now added covering duties to Brother Fellow crafts and the lodge as to the answering of summons, assistance of Brethren, etc. The candidate here promises not to cheat, wrong or defraud a lodge of F. C's or a brother of that degree knowingly or willfully, (nothing is said of other parties) and the penalty as here given binds the same. "To all of which I most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear with a steadfast resolution to keep and perform the same without the least equivocation, mental reservation, or self evasion whatsoever, binding myself under a no less penalty than that of having my left breast torn open, my heart plucked from thence and given to the wild beasts of the field and the fowls of the air as a prey, should I in the least knowingly or willfully violate this, my fellow craft obligation. So help me God and keep me steadfast." This form is the one followed in Kansas and recommended by their grand lodge. Colorado however adds somewhat to it, but in no material way changing the sense. This carries the candidate somewhat deeper into the mysteries, and when he is carefully lectured and a sufficient length of time has transpired he is given the Master Mason's degree which increases his Masonic "light" darkness and he finds himself bound tighter in the ungodly yoke. The M. M. obligation contains ten "ties" or sections besides the one of secrecy. These ten cover the ground of Masonic duty and constitute the Masonic code of duties. They include the duties of answering and obeying all summons under certain restrictions, obedience to all Masonic authority, with duties to each other and their relatives and families. The most notable are the following: "I furthermore promise and swear that I will keep the secrets of a Master Mason when communicated to me as such, 'murder and treason' excepted, and they left to my own election." Note, those not excepted would probably count among their number, burglary, arson, robbery, rape, piracy, theft, forgery, and many other things too numerous to mention, excepting of course murder and treason. And yet Masons tell us, and I for one was informed that there was nothing in the obligation that would interfere with my duty to my God, my country, my neighbor, my family, or myself; and I took the above obligation understanding it so, and with the assurance of "worshipful master" in an official capacity that such was the case. Would that section interfere with my duties to my neighbor if I protected a Mason who had stolen his horse and sent him on his way rejoicing? Any candid Mason can see at once that his M. M. obligation commands him to keep crime a secret, except murder and treason which of course his obligation tells him he can conceal or not as he likes, which of course is not violating his obligation if he also keeps. What do you think of that, you professing Christian, preacher or layman who are under the same cursed yoke? "Be not partakers of their evil deeds." How are you going to do that and keep that section? Every Mason when he comes to the bar of God will be asked something about the way he has kept his obligation. If he has kept it to the letter, that clause will send him to destruction. If he has not kept it he has violated his Masonic obligation and is in the sight of all Masonic eyes a perjured man, and had just as well violate them all. A ten-year-old boy can see that, and also see what to do when it comes to obeying God or man. I have never yet asked God to pardon me for breaking that or any other Masonic obligation, nor do I ever intend to do so. Another obligation or section binds a man to respect the chastity of a Master Mason's wife, mother, sister or daughter, but says nothing about wives, mothers, sisters and daughters of other men, not Masons. Thus licensed they will keep their secrets should they do so and again come under condemnation of God and man. There are other "ties," but lack of space prevents their setting forth. PENALTY, M. M. DEGREE. "To all of which I most solemnly and sincerely promise and swear with a firm and steadfast resolution to keep and perform the same without the least equivocation, mental reservation or self evasion whatsoever, binding myself under no less a penalty, than that of having my body severed in twain, my bowels taken from thence and burned to ashes and they scattered to the four winds of heaven that there might remain no remembrance among men or Masons, of so vile a wretch as I would be, should I in the least knowingly or willfully violate or transgress this my M. M. obligation. So help me God and keep me steadfast ." I have repeated these from memory and to the best of my recollection, what I have given is verbatim. Is it necessary to call attention to the grossness and vileness of an institution, bound by such monstrous obligations-obligations that would shock a band of thieves, if they were compelled to take them, to say nothing of professed ministers of the gospel? Praising God for free salvation and complete deliverance from the power of Satan, I feel it my duty to enlighten my ex-brother Masons, as well as any others that may contemplate joining the order. _____________________________ Freemasons have no doubt modified some aspects of the vows, etc., but the ethical framwork is still highly questionable. The WWW site below also link to a page describing the Chatholic Church's current position on Freemasonry as well as a Christian Fundamentalist group decicated to Ministering to Masons and supporting those Masons who wish to leave Freemasonry. Acacia Press, Incorporated http://www.crocker.com/~acacia/index.html PO BOX 154, Montague, MA 01351 Date: 08-16-96 (12:30) Number: 787 of 793 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: regina@idir.net, REGINA D TOWNSEND Subj: Re: freemasonry and christianity Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Internet Direct Communications Message-ID: <3214B051.40BE@idir.net> Acacia Press, Inc. wrote: (Much deleted) Good Folks, Acacia Press is in the business of selling books that misrepresent Freemasonry on every level, often by using bad scholarship and documents biased against freemasonry. The firm is a business. The aim of Acacia is to make money from the easily persuaded. I have yet to read anything of posted by Mr. Crocker that suggests a wide reading of unbiased sources used in a scholarly support of his viewpoints on the ethics of Freemasonry. He posts here from time to time and is usually silenced by a rigorous application of good research practice and lack of unbiased sources. Feel free to read his posts. But please keep in mind that the sale of books and the perpetuation of untruth, half-truth and outright misuse of the facts. Yours truly, Regina D. Townsend Date: 08-16-96 (15:18) Number: 789 of 793 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: diroller@usa.pipeline.com, DAVID I ROLLER Subj: Re: HEY WHAT'S THE DEAL Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Pipeline USA Message-ID: <4v23gf$kna@news2.h1.usa.pipeline.com> On Aug 16, 1996 06:00:32 in article , '"Acacia Press, Inc." ' wrote: >e racist history of Freemasonsry. The quote was >fairly constrained. Since you constantly insist on posting trash - why not give us what you "wonderful" people at Acacia Press believe in besides selling reprints of books & tracts that you do not have to pay royalties on (Public Domain + no Royalties ). What charities do you believe in , what good works do you do?? Its easy to cut down trees what forests do you plant?? Give us an honest answer or continued to be treated as Spam and trolls as many here regard you as. Date: 08-17-96 (05:01) Number: 790 of 793 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: don@icon.net, DON Subj: Do Masons need a Saviour? Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian,alt.freemasonry,alt.masonic.members Organization: (ICON) InterConnect Online, Inc. Message-ID: <4v3jna$25u@news.icon.net> "Masonry, My Savior, and Me" (an article from the Christian Research Newsletter, Volume 1: Number 4, 1988) The editor of the Christian Research Newsletter is Ron Rhodes. From the TESTIMONY column: The personal testimony of Duane Washum. ------------- Throughout my life, I never knew the Masonic Order to be anything but good. Crippled children's hospitals and burn care units are well-known trademarks of the Shriners. Any organization that does the work Masons are known for couldn't possible be bad, could it? I didn't know what went on in a Masonic Lodge, but judging by the caliber of the men involved, I figured that it must be something pretty special. I submitted a petition to the Lodge and was initiated in the Entered Apprentice Degree, passed to the degree of Fellowcraft, and was soon raised to the degree of Master Mason. I felt that I had attained to the finest fraternity in the world. I was selected by the Worshipful Master of the Lodge to serve as Junior Steward and later honored by serving as Chaplain. My studies in ritual and degree work continued as Junior Warden and then Senior Warden. I finally became Worshipful Master of the largest Lodge in the state of Nevada. I believed myself to be a member of a fraternity that stood for God, country, and family. But, after five years of total dedication, I withdrew from the Order. It didn't happen overnight. My first questioning of Freemasonry was in regard to the obligation I took when I was initiated. One is made to swear secrecy to the point that bloody penalties of death are involved. It was explained that this was symbolic and only emphasized that what I had learned was not public information. My next moment of confusion came when I was Junior Steward. A member was in the habit of talking during lodge meetings. This was disruptive but not a big problem. What was a problem, I thought, was his use of God's name in vain. One evening this terminology was used four or five times in a short period. I later told him that if he used those words in the Lodge room again, I was going to file Masonic charges against him. The reaction of the members who overheard was very confusing. Some approached me and mildly chastised me for the way I had approached him. But it was the reaction of the majority of the members that caught me off guard. They reminded me that he is a Past Master, and a Grand Lodge Officer. He was not wrong in using God's name in vain. Rather, I had affronted a Past Master and a Grand Lodge Officer. All ritual work in Masonry is committed to memory and repeated verbatim, including prayers. At first I did not notice that none of the prayers are in the name of Jesus Christ. "Great Architect of the Universe," "Almighty Father of the Universe," "Judge Supreme," "God," and "Lord," yes, but never in the name of Jesus Christ. Being Chaplain, saying grace for a meal was my duty. Since there is no specified prayer, the prayer was my own, and I prayed in the name of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I was soon told that we never pray in the name of Jesus Christ for it would be offensive to our Jewish members. I then became aware that there is no mention of Jesus Christ in any of the prayers or in the ritual book. One evening, I asked about the inconsistency involved for the Jewish member in having the Bible resting on our altar. I was informed that it did not necessarily have to be the Bible. It could be the Koran, the Rig Veda, or even the Book of Mormon. What sacred writing was on the altar would depend upon the religious persuasion of the lodge. So, it really didn't matter if the Lodge had any Jewish member or not. The important thing was not to pray in the name of Jesus Christ! A proposed major undertaking that would involve a great deal of money was made into a motion and defeated, much to the dissatisfaction of the Master. Without notice, it was brought up again, this time in a stacked meeting. The motion passed. I made an objection to the Master and told him that what he was doing prostituted the dignity of his office. I found myself "wrong", because the Worshipful Master is always right. Both of my confrontations began to consume my thoughts. I was morally right, but I was made to feel that I was wrong. By opposing the Worshipful Master I was, in the eyes of some, committing blasphemy! Despite this, I was able to be elected as the next Worshipful Master. I soon found myself questioning things, including my title. Was I really a Worshipful Master? By whose authority? I never considered myself to be master over anybody, and I certainly wasn't worshipful. I was in a local Christian bookstore and found a book I was interested in, _The Kingdom of the Cults_ by Walter Martin. This was of interest to me because of stories regarding Mormonism and Joseph Smith. He was reported to have been a Mason and to have pirated signs, grips, and Masonic ritual work and incorporated them into the Mormon Temple rituals. But, when I turned to the table of contents, it was like someone hit me with a baseball bat. Listed was the Rosicrucian Fellowship, a group my brother had been studying. He told me how there had been an organization known as The Great White Brotherhood of Man, and out of this came the Rosicrucians, and out of the Rosicrucians came the Masonic Order. For the first time I was seeing Rosicrucian Fellowship in print and it was in a book about cults. I remember how, after becoming a Mason, I had mentioned it to a man in my church. He said, "So you joined the Masonic cult." I said to myself, "He doesn't understand." And now it looked like I was to find out who understood and who didn't. Now there were three words racing through my mind: "Rosicru- cianism," "Masonry," and "cult." I turned to the section about Rosicrucians and the reference to Masonry. "It (Rosicrucians) was by admission a secret society. It flourished in a day when secret societies were in vogue, and a century after its origin, Rosicr- ucianism underwent a recrudescence in connection with Freemasonry, which not only deemed Rosicrucianism genuine, but even borrowed usages and customs from the writings of those who had satirized the fraternity." Every question that had previously troubled me about Masonry came back to me. A cold shiver went through me. I began praying to God for wisdom to know the truth. I placed a phone call to Christian Research Institute, and I told of my concern about Freemasonry. They said they would send me a booklet which might be helpful, _Freemasonry and Christianity_ by Alva J. McClain. That night, I shared my concerns with a Christian friend. He taught me about blood oaths, secular humanism, and other things. The next two weeks found me in extreme turmoil. I would think about the discussions with my Christian friend but then I would read from my Masonic Bible. Everything I would read seemed beautiful and I could see no wrong in it. My family's Masonic background, the relationships I had with other Masons, and the beauty and dignity of Masonic ritual were all going through my mind. I was beginning to think that maybe my friend, like the man before, just didn't understand. Finally, I went to my knees and once again asked the Lord to show me the truth. It roared across my mind. "Blood Oath." I recalled my uneasiness with the oath of secrecy, and Jesus' admonition to "make no oath at all" (Matthew 5:34). That week the secretary of Vegas Lodge No. 32 received my letter of withdrawal. I received a call from a Past Master who asked me why I was withdrawing. I told him I was a Christian, and shared my thoughts with him, including scriptures from the Bible. He explained to me that I shouldn't believe everything I read in the Bible and that Christianity was a religion that the men in power at the time came up with to keep the common people in line. Then he said, "After all, Duane, our dad, uncle, grand-dad, and great grand-dad were all Masons." The Past Master extoling the virtues of Freemasonry and attacking my faith in Jesus Christ was my own brother. My letter of withdrawal was held for over a month, but now there is a paper in my home titled, "Certificate For A Brother Dropped From the Rolls at His Own Request." After Christ endured indescribable pain and suffered for my sins, I could not rational- ize staying in the lodge because of the difficulties I would have encountered had I resigned. Besides, to stay in Masonry would mean to deny Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior in my prayers. I have prayed for forgiveness and know that God has answered my prayers; not because I am worthy, but because of His grace and love, and because Jesus Christ IS my Lord and Savior. End of document, CRN0004A.TXT (original CRI file name), "Masonry, My Savior, and Me" release A, April 4, 1993 R. Poll, CRI (A special note of thanks to Bob and Pat Hunter for their help in the preparation of this ASCII file for BBS circulation.) ----------------------------------------------------------------- YOURS FOR THE ASKING The Christian Research Institute (CRI) -- founded in 1960 by the late Dr. Walter R. Martin -- is a clearing house for current, in- depth information on new religious movements and aberrant Christian teachings. We provide well-reasoned, carefully- researched answers to concepts and ideas that challenge orthodox Christianity. Did you know that CRI has a wealth of information on various topics that is yours for the asking? In fact, a free subscription to the Christian Research Newsletter is yours if you contact CRI and ask for one saying that you found out about the offer from this computer text file. We offer a wide variety of articles and fact sheets free of charge. Write us today for information on these or other topics. Our first-rate research staff will do everything possible to help you. Christian Research Institute P.O. Box 500 San Juan Capistrano, CA 92693 (714) 855-9926 --------------- End of file. Date: 08-17-96 (04:35) Number: 793 of 793 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: sgendron@msn.com, STéPHANE GENDRON Subj: Masonic Caskets Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Message-ID: <0000555e+0000251b@msn.com> Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: The Microsoft Network (msn.com) Sam Houston Caskets of America, owned and operated by Stephen Gendron, a Mason Free and Accepted, Albion Lodge No.2 (Quebec City, Canada), is pleased to announce the creation of new custom-designed caskets for Free Masons of North America. E-mail us to get more information. We are designing your casket, putting all masonic symbols that are important to you. All caskets are hand-made by artist educated and trained in the best tradition. We have special plan for payment and are shipping everywhere in North America. If you feel for getting a fine piece of art... Send all requests to Sam Houston Caskets of America Head Office TransAmerica Holding 5445, De Lorimier Blvd. Suite 409 Montreal (Quebec) H2H 2S5 CANADA FAX: (514) 525-0908 e-mail: sgendron@msn.com e-mail: tamerica@netcom.ca Date: 08-17-96 (15:00) Number: 797 of 819 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rogeri@netcom.com, ROGER INGERSOLL Subj: In Defense of Masonry 1 Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Message-ID: Organization: Freemasonry on the Internet I see Don and Acacia are posting again their garbage and lies. I applogize for posting an article on the usenet, but I think it is timely to do so today for some reason. This article as well as others are available on "Freemasonry on the Internet" at http://www.chrysalis.org. I also appologize for not updating my page as often as I would like, but I am now past a very busy period and hope to start adding a few more articles to it very soon. Keep watching for some changes. Roger Ingersoll ------------------------------------------------------------------------ IN DEFENSE OF FREEMASONRY (Neither a cult nor a religion) INTRODUCTION I downloaded the article from Gateway West entitled "SO MOTE IT BE" and as a Freemason read the article with considerable interest. It , of course, uses the most common if not most deceptive tool of masonic detractors namely, to pick and choose elements from the masonic ritual: quote them out of context: and then proceed to misinterpret them in order to draw conclusions which to the objective mind could not be considered either factual or rational. A simple analogy may assist the person who is familiar with Christianity and not familiar with Freemasonry to understand the dilemma. If you read an article which set out to establish that Christians are believers and supporters of cannibalism, no doubt you would regale with laughter. However, if one applies the same type of logic as utilized by "Computers for Christ" in their assault on Freemasonry the case can be made that Christians are cannibals. Let us go through the exercise for purposes of clarification only, since we all know that the conclusion is ludicrous. Proposition 1. True Christians believe that the Bible is the literal word of God given to man for his guidance and instruction ( here .... insert several quotations from the Bible which you feel will support the foregoing proposition ..... it is not important that other very learned Christian theologians interpret the Biblical quotations you use in an entirely different fashion as long as you and your particular sect have decided that they support the foregoing proposition) Proposition 2. At the last supper, Christ transformed the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ and in partaking in communion with his disciples said " This is my body and my blood, drink ye all of this in remembrance of me." Proposition 3. Christians, believing in the literal interpretation of the Bible, partake in communion or Eucharist in which the priest through his authority from Christ transforms the bread and wine into the body and blood of Christ. This is eaten by the congregation. Conclusion: Therefore Christians each and every Sunday participate in a ritualistic cannibalism in which they eat and drink the blood of the very God they purport to worship. Ancillary Axioms: a) If Christians believe that it is acceptable to eat the flesh and drink the blood of their God, then it must be acceptable to eat and drink the blood of another mere mortal man. (b) If Christians believe in cannibalism, then it must be acceptable to kill your fellowman for the purposes of eating his flesh and drinking his blood. Conclusion: The Christian religion is Demonic since it supports killing and cannibalism. (At this juncture of the paper you include a whole series of quotations from your particular philosophy to show that cannibalism is evil and that your sect must struggle to overcome the evils of these Demonic Christians before they devour the whole civilization in one grandiose ritualistic feast) (Lastly, you provide an earnest plea for these Demonic cannibals to see the errors of their ways and to join your particular sect which is of course the embodiment of truth and reason) The foregoing, of course, is not intended to be an attack on Christianity. Rather it is to illustrate that the application of loose logic and misinterpretation can and does lead to monstrously absurd conclusions. Such is the case with most so called "exposes" of Freemasonry. Traditionally, Freemason's have chosen to not respond to these insidious attacks upon their institution and have quietly proceeded with their good works on the basis that action speaks louder than words. Recently, the attacks have increased in both vociferousness and frequency producing a total misconception of the Order. Consequently, it has become necessary to respond but in so doing we are obliged to comply with one of the great principles of the order namely: not to criticize or denounce another man's religious beliefs. Consequently, in order to live within my parameters, my response will be somewhat circumspect in nature. It is recognized that irrespective of the strength of the rebuttal, the dogmatic fundamentalists within the Christian tradition will continue to assail Freemasonry as the bastion of Satanism. However, there are many people who are open minded and are gifted with a genuine intellectual curiosity. It is to these people that this defense of freemasonry is directed. It is hoped that they will see Freemasonry in its true light as an institution which tends to foster and improve the very best affections of our nature and carries into active operation the three great social virtues; liberty; fraternity; and equality. Preliminary Observations Now before we deal with the gravamen of the accusation that Freemasonry is Satanic, it should be recognized the membership of the fraternity includes and indeed is predominated by men who represent the mainstream of western rational thought. The British Royal family, George Washington, Franklin Delano Roosevelt, Walt Disney, Mozart, and countless other prominent men have joined and practised freemasonry. Lest one concludes that it tends to attract only the secular type who has no genuine belief in the Christian doctrine, it should be remembered that such sincere Christians as President Harry Trueman were active members of both their Church and the fraternity. Lest one responds by saying that these men did not have enough training in Christian theology to recognize the hypocrisy of their position, one must recognize that very learned Christian theologians have been active members of Freemasonry and consider their freemasonry to be an adjunct and in fact an emulation of their Christian beliefs. The position of Archbishop of Canterbury, for example, has often been filled by a Freemason. Joseph Fort Newton and countless other parish priests and ministers from a variety of denominations have worn the apron of a Freemason. None of these men considered freemasonry to be demonic. At this juncture several points seems beyond dispute, namely: (1) men whose judgement and wisdom in other fields has been respected and followed have joined the ranks of the Freemasons; (2) Christian ministers from the very prominent to the ordinary parish minister have joined the ranks of the Freemasons and not found it offensive to their Christian beliefs; (3)those who proclaim that freemasonry is satanic do not appear to represent the mainstream of Christian thought. THE CONFLICT WITH CERTAIN SECTS OF CHRISTIANITY The question arises: how is it that certain Christians find Freemasonry to be perfectly compatible with their religion while others consider it to be the total anathema of Christianity? The phenomena obviously arises from the fact that there is a complete divergent in views among Christians as to exactly what Christianity is supposed to represent. However, it appears that the opposition to Freemasonry within Christianity falls into two distinct camps, namely: (1) the fundamentalist ... born again type of Christians; (2) the Roman Catholic church. (It is notable that Freemasons themselves do not prohibit either of these groups from joining their ranks. Their exclusion is self imposed.) The opposition of these two groups who are a different in theology as day and night has to be addressed separately. THE PROTESTANT FUNDAMENTALIST. Freemasons have developed certain philosophical principles which appear to be unacceptable to the fundamentalist Christian. The basic tenants can be enumerated as follows: (1) Freemasonry, not viewing itself as a religion, recognizes and tolerates men from all the great religions of the world. Throughout its long and established history it has accepted and respected Jews, Moslems, Sikhs, and a variety of organized and individualized religious beliefs. This religious tolerance appears to be unacceptable to the fundamentalist Christian. (2) Freemasonry is by the very nature of the institution a symbolic rite. Its drama's, its emblems, its rituals, are not either taught or believed by its members in their literal sense. For example, the central focus of Craft Masonry, is the story of the death of one of the central figures in Masonic mythology, Hiram Abiff. No serious minded mason believes or accepts the masonic account of his death as being historically accurate. No serious student of freemasonry is concerned by the fact that the story cannot be proven to be historically accurate. Additionally, no serious student of the Craft is content to accept the literal interpretation of the words of the ritual. They all know and appreciate that the ritual is veiled in allegory and thus the object of Freemasons is to look behind these veils in hopes of learning some of the great philosophical truths about this world and the human condition. This practise of wrapping our religious and philosophical axioms within the context of symbolism and allegory is neither uniquely masonic nor an aberration from human practise. The study of English literature is in a large part much the same exercise. Anyone who has taken a first year course in English literature is soon confronted by his professor with the "symbolism" incorporated by the author in his novel. The student of English literature is then expected to look beyond the plot of the novel to determine what the author is really trying to say on a philosophical, psychological, spiritual, social, or political plane. For example, the story of Huckleberry Finn did not become one of the great treasures of American literature solely because it is an interesting story about a the life and times of a young lad named Huck Finn. At its literal level the novel is a relatively simple if not childish story. Why then has it become a tradition to study this at the University level? The answer is found in the fact that Mark Twain (who incidentally was a Mason) through the use of symbolism and allegory reveals something important about American society and about human beings through this simple storyline. The mason views the degrees of Freemasonry in much the same light and throughout his masonic career he finds himself in a continuous learning process and his views about the degrees and about life gradually but quite perceptibly change and grow. All of the foregoing is quite foreign to persons who have chosen as an article of faith to view and interpret the bible in a literal level. And it is this totally different "mind set" which appears to lead these people to a total misconception of Freemasonry. Let us revert back to the article written by "Computers for Christ" in order to illustrate the dichotomy in thinking between them and a typical Freemason. Computers for Christ write the following: "It is in this final 'Blue Lodge' degree that candidate is laid out 'in death' and is raised from the dead by the 'Worshipful Master' of the Lodge, using the secret grip of the Master Mason. Let no Mason deceive you! We again face this replacement of our Saviour's place by the power and authority of Lucifer. " If I understand their position correctly they appear to interpret the third degree of Freemasonry as teaching masons that it is the Masonic Lodge through some perverted Luciferian doctrine which provides salvation in contrast to the Christian doctrine that salvation is through Christ. Although the third degree drama is capable of many interpretations I must say that I do not know of a single solitary mason from the lowest levels of the Craft to the highest degrees which are bestowed, who would accept that interpretation as having the slightest element of validity. If you congregated 5000 masons and asked them if that was their interpretation of the degree, I am totally confident that you would not find one person who would accept this interpretation. What then do masons see in the third degree? Let us briefly provide some background for the person who is not familiar with the degrees of Freemasonry. The central drama of the third degree involves the death of Hiram Abiff the legendary builder of King Solomon's temple. He is accosted by "ruffians" and assassinated. His loyal followers search out his remains and upon finding those remains carried them back to the temple where he was buried in the central sanctuary. The candidate taking this degree participates as the central character of the legend. During the course of the ceremony he is raised from the "dead level" to the "upright" position with the grip of a master mason. During this portion of the ceremony he is given these precise instructions: "It is thus my brother, that all master masons are raised from a figurative death to a reunion with their companions of their former toils" This drama has many explanations among masons. Many Christian masons view this as a dramatization of the resurrection of Christ and it serves to teach and reinforce for them the lesson that their salvation is through Christ. Many Christian masons view this portion of the drama as representing that doctrine of being "born again" as being a condition precedent to salvation. Others see it as the teaching the lesson that the path to eternal life is through "righteousness". Others do not see it as representing life after death at all but rather view it as symbolic of the idea that through philosophical development man is capable of reaching a new consciousness. Others see the central purpose of this segment of the drama is to teach masons the necessity of accepting death as an integral and inevitable part of life itself. All would agree that it is not the Master of the Lodge, or the Masonic Lodge itself which is the instrument to salvation since the Master of the Lodge in playing his role in the drama is intended to serve a symbolic purpose himself. The central point of the foregoing discussion is this: to attempt to understand Freemasonry by interpreting it on a literal level is an exercise in misconception and absurdity. For those who have steeped themselves in the idea of a literal interpretation of the Bible as being the sole sound doctrinal position, it is a very big step to recognize that Freemasonry institutionalizes and teaches its members NOT to interpret its degrees on a literal level. The other great banner waved in these so called "exposes" of Freemasonry it the masonic oaths of secrecy. Again, steeped in the school of literal interpretation, the detractors raise cries of "blood curdling" , "Satanic" , "Cult oriented" and "paganism". None of these people seem to recognize that these obligations to secrecy are in themselves symbolic. (in order to obviate these criticism and misunderstandings the modern rituals have now described them as "symbolic penalties") Why then do Freemasons have this tradition of secrecy and oaths of secrecy ... and what if any purpose do they serve within the organization? The oaths never to reveal the secrets of a superior degree to an uninitiated serve and symbolize one of the great attitudes of Freemasonry. A mason starts his masonic career as an apprentice and then gravitates to being a Craftsman, from whence he moves to being a Master Mason and so on..... Embodied in this course of progress is the idea of self improvement through stages or "degrees". Encompassed in that system is the idea (similar to the philosophies of the Far East) that each lesson will be shown to you when your mind and spirit has grown appropriately. Therefore one of the central and essential purposes of the obligations to secrecy, is simply an internal sociological one. It serves to preserve the line of progress from one degree to another for the masons themselves. Within their ranks this system appears to cause no disharmony. Why it causes such distress to outsiders is a question yet to be answered in any intellectual way. In addition to the foregoing, it should be recognized that the Freemason's tradition of binding oaths of secrecy serves a philosophical purpose. It teaches its members something important about life. Let me elaborate. It teaches men the importance of developing the ability to keep those things to himself which should not be publicized for fear of doing harm to other persons. No one would dispute that a lawyer, doctor, should maintain the confidentiality of his clients files. No one would dispute that a plumber should keep his bid on a project confidential lest his competitor being aware of his bid chooses to underbid him. No one would argue that the romance of a husband and wife's bedroom should remain confidential lest something sacred and beautiful be destroyed. No one would argue that the confessions of a close friend who is in crisis are best kept to yourself since its exposure will hurt or destroy the friends reputation and esteem. Now this matter of keeping a lawful secret is not an intellectual proposition is a matter of learned behaviour. Consequently, freemasonry teaches this not as an intellectual proposition but by making its members keep certain matters discreet. It is the best way to learn a behaviour ... learn by doing. At this point in the "exposes" of Freemasonry, we get to the cheapest literary trick which seems to be irresistible to all enemies of Freemasonry. That is, to re-enforce their argument they proceed to misquote the ritual. (after all ... most readers of the expose do not have ready access to the rituals and their chances of being caught are slim when they are discussing the penalties since these are never written down. Such of course is the case with the "expose" at hand. Let us re-examine their words. It should further be noted that in the Royal Arch Degree, the candidate swears to protect the 'brethren', "Murder and treason not excepted"! This places the Masonic oath above that of our courts and our country. What hope would you have against a Mason in a Criminal or Civil Court with a Judge who is a 32nd or 33rd degree Mason? None, by the nature of their oaths! (emphasis mine) Being a member of the Royal Arch and having taken the very degree which they discuss I can assure you that the penalty when given includes the phrase "murder and treason excepted" Additionally I should add that recent innovations to the penalties have clarified the matter so that a mason is not obliged to keep any crimes of another mason secret. However, in this case it is our word against theirs. However, the accusation "What hope would you have against a mason in a Criminal or Civil Court with a Judge who is a 32nd or 33rd degree mason" can be examined more independently. Oliver Wendal Holmes was such a man and his non masonic biographers and the American people at large seem to have liked their chances of justice and equity in front of this renowned jurist. There is not a single suggestion in his whole record as a jurist wherein anyone has alleged that he favoured a fellow mason against a non mason. His record both as a man, and as a Judge is an exemplification a Freemasonry in action. Clearly he did not consider himself or any mason above the law of the land. This is probably because he was charged with the responsibility as a mason on following the laws of his country. The Canadian version is as follows: "As a citizen of the world, I am next to enjoin you to be exemplary in the discharge of your civil duties by never proposing or at all countenancing, any act that may have a tendency to subvert the peace and good order of society, by paying due obedience to the laws of any state which may for a time become the place of your residence or to afford you its protection and above all, by never losing sight of the allegiance due to the sovereign of this nation, ever remembering the obligation of loyalty which you owe to our Queen and Country." Freemasons I suggest have a very clear concept of their obligation to their country and an equally clear concept that justice should be equally administered irrespective of creed, colour, or religion. Given that a substantial number of the signatories to the American Constitution were practising Freemasons and that document remains a beacon of light to freedom, equality, and human dignity, should provide an additional if not conclusive rebuttal to this spurious allegation. I suggest to you that the concern is not "How would you fare against a mason in court when the judge is a mason?". That record has been established. The genuine concern we should consider is "How would a Moslem, Jew, or Christian, or indeed a Mason, fare in a court conducted by one of the members of Computers for Christ?" THE ROMAN CATHOLIC POSITION The Roman Catholic antagonism towards Freemasonry can only be properly understood from a historical perspective. During the Reformation, many masons were actively supporting the reformation. French Freemasons were particularly active in their struggle to reduce the power of the Church and elevate the position and influence of the national state. As a consequence of this political struggle the two camps arose and unfortunately were maintained even into the 1950's. French Freemasonry unlike English and American Freemasonry countenanced and accepted Atheists. It is perfectly understandable that this was unacceptable to the Papal Authority in Rome and consequently a decree or Bull emanated from the Holy Sea prohibiting Catholics from membership in the Masonic Lodge. Additionally, the Humanism and the 18th Century Rationalism which permeated and inspired continental freemasonry came into conflict with the established doctrines of the Church which had been developed during the medieval period. In recent times English (and thereby American) Freemasonry has received the tacit approval of the Papal Sea. At this juncture the historical dispute appears to be in abeyance and Catholics are no longer banned from membership in the Craft. It should be recognized that there are conservative elements within the Catholic Church who continue to waive the anti masonic flag. Their criticisms of the Craft mirror that of Computers for Christ and the foregoing answer applies with equal force. THE POSITION OF FREEMASONS ON RELIGION There is no more eloquent explanation of the position of Freemasonry than that found in THE BUILDERS written by an Anglican Minister Joseph Fort Newton at page 243 wherein he states: "While Masonry is not a church, it has religiously preserved some things of highest importance to the Church -- among them the right of each individual soul to its own religious faith. Holding aloof from separate sects and creeds, it has taught all of them how to respect and tolerate each other; asserting a principle broader than any of them -- the sanctity of the soul and the duty of every man to revere, or at least to regard with charity, what is sacred to his fellows. It is like the crypts underneath the old cathedrals -- a place where men of every creed who long for something deeper and truer, older and newer than they have hitherto known, meet and unite. Having put away childish things, they find themselves made one by a profound and childlike faith, each bringing down into that quiet crypt his own pearl of great price --- ......... Of no one age, Masonry belongs to all ages; of no one religion, it finds great truths in all religions. Indeed, it holds that truth which is common to all elevating and benign religions, and is the basis of each; that faith which underlies all sects and overarches all creeds, like the sky above and the river bed below the flow of mortal years. It does not undertake to explain or dogmatically to settle those questions or solve those dark mysteries which out-top human knowledge. Beyond the facts of faith it does not go." Throughout the centuries Freemasons have been branded as Atheists, accused of satanic worship, and cursed as the anathema of Jesus Christ. I suppose this arises from fear of the simple yet profound truths that are given to every man who steps across the portals and through the Pillars of Freemasonry. .... he is taught to free the soul from the dominion of pride and prejudice, to look beyond the narrow limits of particular institutions, whether civil or religious, and to view every son of Adam as a Brother of the Dust." ... he is taught to form a just estimate of those wondrous faculties with which God has endowed the being created after His own image, and to feel the duty which He has thereby imposed upon him, of cultivating those Divine attributes with the most diligent care and attention, that he may be enabled to show forth His glory and contribute to the happiness of mankind. "Some day, when the cloud of prejudice has been dispelled by the searchlight of truth, the world will honour Masonry for its service to freedom of thought and the liberty of faith. No part of its history has been more noble, no principle of its teaching has been more precious than its age-long demand for the right and duty of every soul to seek that light by which no man was ever injured, and that truth which makes man free. Down through the centuries -- often in times when the highest crime was not murder, but thinking, and the human conscience was a captive dragged at the wheel of the ecclesiastical chariot -- always and everywhere Masonry has stood for the right of the soul to know the truth, and to look up unhindered from the lap of earth into the face of God. Not freedom from faith, but freedom of faith, has been its watchword, on the ground that as despotism is the mother of anarchy, so bigoted dogmatism is the prolific source of scepticism -- knowing, also, that our race has made its most rapid advance in those fields where it has been free the longest." "(The Builders ..... page 264) Is then Freemasonry Satanic or the Anti Christ? Nothing could be farther from the truth. No amount of misinterpretation ..... no amount of selective misquotation from the mason's rituals .... no amount of dogmatic literal interpretations of the Bible can change the nature and purpose of Freemasonry. Long after those who claim to have a monopoly on the truth have folded their dogmatic tents, Freemasonry will stand, quietly as she has always done, solemnly as is her nature; charitably as is her tradition, as Temple of peace, harmony, and brotherly love. It will comfort the mourner; bring peace and consolation to the troubled spirit; dry the tears of the widow and the orphan; it will even seek to light up the darkness and gloom of the grave by pointing to the hopes and promises of a better light to come. Within the confines of her peaceful wall men, and indeed Christian men, will still gather and conduct her age old rituals. In so doing those masons who are Christians will find Freemasonry gives them more faith .... not less faith: more love of Christ ..... not less love of Christ .... more understanding not less understanding of one of the great religions of the World. In the words of Rudyard Kipling's character, the Sergeant Major, in that classic novel Kim , it is intended " Not as a substitute for religion but as an average plan of life" Cameron D. MacKay -- | rogeri@netcom.com |\ Dallas, TX 8*<%%%%%%%%%|+>-===================================================----- |/ Home of "Freemasonry on the Internet" | http://www.chrysalis.org/masonry/ Date: 08-17-96 (08:00) Number: 799 of 819 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: wollmann@mail.sdsu.edu, EDMOND WOLLMANN Subj: Re: The Ascension or Destruction? Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.metaphysics.lightwork,alt.astrology,alt.religion.christian,alt. divination,alt.consciousness,alt.paranormal.channeling,alt.alien.visitors,alt.f reemasonry,alt.recovery.religion,alt.religion.universal-life,alt.sci.physics.ne w-theories,alt.sci.planetary,alt.society.sovereign,alt.religion.all-worlds,alt. politics,alt.mythology,alt.meditation.transcendental,alt.religion.course-miracl e Organization: Astrological Consulting Message-ID: <3215DE9D.5B17@mail.sdsu.edu> > >You are correct. Mans nature is naturally sinful from birth - you > >are already attracted to wrongful things and there is no possible way to > >get around it. Every sin is already forgiven by God regardless of what > >it is if you accept him. Why would the creator create a creation and then judge its own creation? "All That Is" and everything within it is an eternal unfoldment of exploration. Limited and judgemental thinking is a creation of a limited perspective that is all. The issue is why would you choose such a definition and create such a reality. This tells us far more about the person who expressed this view than it does about "man". The "All That Is" and I have faith in your ability to create a more positive reality than this-no matter how miserable you insist on being. It is yourself that needs to be accepted. "I know and am pursuaded by the lord Jesus that NOTHING is unclean of itself-unless a man esteemeth it to be unclean, THEN TO HIM IT IS UNCLEAN" New Testament Romans 14:14 In other words the Universe has no built-in meanings, because you are a co-creator you are given the power to give it meaning by what you believe or have been taught to believe is true. If there was only one truth there would only be one person. So truly it is simply a matter of choice but you are always perfectly reflecting the idea you choose to be at any given moment; "Allow us to refresh ourselves on the idea and the concept of, perfection. We have discussed many times with you, the idea that in your lives very often you are taught, that even when you create the idea and the notion in your lives of what you call, a spiritual path. That the reason for this is for the a-ttainment and the a-chievement of perfection. But recognize once again as we have shared many times our perspective is that you will never a-chieve perfection, because you are already perfect. The idea does not mean that you will not grow, not expand, not change, not transform, not learn something new. But it is simply an allowance, a recognition of allowance in your lives, that at any given moment, the idea you are being, the reality you are expressing, the events you are experiencing, are for their own reasons perfect in themselves. This relaxation, this attitude, this backing off from yourself in that way rather than applying so much pressure to the idea to BE MORE PERFECT, is what allows you to know that you can always become a different type of perfection at any given moment, perhaps a more expanded type. But you will always be, at any given moment, the absolute perfect manifestation of whatever idea you are being at that moment. Your willingness to allow that moment to be perfect in and of itself, is what paradoxically allows you to create the next and different perfect moment. Because unless you are willing to allow whatever moment you are experiencing to be complete in and of itself on all levels, then you are not allowing yourself to view and perceive all facets of that experience, because if you do not think it is perfect as it is, if you invalidate it and judge it in that way, in a negative point of view, then you yourself may be shutting off aspects of that event, of that moment that you need to see, need to be aware of, to incorporate them into the totality of yourself so that you can get on with the next step. Every moment is a stepping stone to the next moment, and if you invalidate any stepping stone then you yourself remove from the path you are, the ability to get to the next stepping stone. Always allow each and every moment of your lives to be perfectly valid as they are. This does not mean that you must accept that the things that are occurring in your life are what you "should" accept or prefer. You can always prefer your life to be the way you desire it to be. But the way to allow yourself to create it to be the way that you desire it to be, is to accept that the way it is now SERVES A PURPOSE and is a PART of the path you have created yourself to be, and that what you are learning is there for a reason, your reason! That there is something within the scenario you want to see, you want to reflect on, you want to learn from. And in accepting and acknowledging the way your life does unfold, that is what gives you the recognition of the empowerment you have, to create your life to unfold in the direction and in the manner you most desire it to be. So simply do allow yourself to reflect at any given moment, that no matter what your choices, every scenario, for what it is, is a perfect manifestation of that scenario. You can prefer perfect harmony and perfect ecstasy, or you can prefer perfect misery. But both are perfect expressions of the idea you are reflecting at that moment. And when you allow it to be there for a reason, then you can extract from that scenario, what will most assist you in reforming the idea, redirecting yourself and creating what it is you desire to experience most in your reality. Many individuals will pressure themselves in many different ways to strive, to struggle, to try, to be more perfect. Will set themselves goals and ideals in that way, that continually denies the validity they possess, at that moment. In that way you deny yourself all that you truly desire as well. For if you do not believe yourself complete in that moment, then you, by your own definition, insist that you do not have the capability of creating what it is you say you desire to attract into your lives. Knowing that you are complete, perhaps focused not in a way you prefer to be, but knowing you are complete, gives you the opportunity to know that at any given moment you have the ability to refocus yourself in any direction you desire-you lack nothing! You have all the tools and all the abilities you require at any given moment to be anything you are willing and bold enough to believe you can define yourself to be!" Darryl Anka as "Bashar". -- Edmond H. Wollmann P.M.A.F.A. © 1996 Astrological Consulting/Altair Publications http://home.aol.com/ewollmann PO Box 221000 San Diego, CA. 92192-1000 (619)453-2342 e-mail wollmann@mail.sdsu.edu Date: 08-18-96 (00:00) Number: 808 of 819 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais3.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: 33deg questions Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <4v5mf2$pub@news2.cais.com> The 33rd Degree is the degree that qualifies one to be an officer of the Supreme Council of the Scottish Rite. I have not received that degree, so I cannot speak with absolute authority regarding its contents. But there are other similar degrees in that and other rites, which is to say, degrees that are necessary qualifications to hold presiding office. These degrees include that of (Virtual) Past Master, Master of the Symbolic Lodge, and Master (or Sublime Prince) of the Royal Secret. And I have received all of these. The one thing that I can say is absolutely characteristic of any degree in the Masonic system that deals with holding power is that the degree counsels a Master (or other officer) to preside with courtesy, restraint, and dignity, to respect those over whom he holds power, and to remember that humility which should be associated with all exercise of earthly power in respect of that One who holds Supreme Power over us all. I do not believe it possible that men who have spent years learning restraint in the use of power and teaching it to others will suddenly, upon being coroneted with the honor of an Inspector General (Honorary), turn to rapacity and greed, oppression and abuse. The preposterous arguments of the radio loonies about the 33rd degree also show a vast ignorance. No Mason holding the rank of Inspector General in the Scottish Rite has an iota of the power inherent in the office of Grand Master of Masons. The bizarre notion that the Scottish Rite Southern Jurisdiction sitting in Washington has some kind of authority and power over all Masons is of a piece with the fantastic tales of the machinations of the Pope and the Jesuits that were common during the anti-Catholic agitation of the 19th century (and into the 20th, and of which some Masons were themselves, to our shame, guilty). The problem, of course, is that people who are far enough gone to believe this baloney in the first place are too far gone to reach with the facts or reason. As Shakespeare wrote, "...the madman and the fool are of imagination all compact....How easy is a bush supposed a bear!" They have closed the door to their intellect and see fierce dangers made of harmless shadows in the dark, a darkness of their own construction. But they are not our real audience: We must speak to the sensible men (and women) who read these libels and hear these slanders and wonder if it can be true. We must not allow the marketplace of ideas to be degraded by having it filled only with lies. When we present the truth about our Fraternity in clear terms, speak with reason and temperance, and show ourselves to be Masons, the ravings of our opponents will become obvious for what they are. Men _will_ flock to our banner if they can see it shining in the dawn. It is up to us to raise that banner and ensure that it catches the light. Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Date: 08-17-96 (23:25) Number: 809 of 819 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: dsale@users.southeast.net, DANNY SALE Subj: Re: 33deg questions Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Internet Relations Message-ID: <4v5kdp$q0g@jaxnet.southeast.net> My friend, I have sent you information pertaining to this matter. It must be noted that in the master degree of freemasonry, the initiate is symbolically killed and reborn as he enters the Gate of Death and Sanctuary of the Spirits after refusing the Kings offer to quit if he does not have enough courage. He undergos the 'Battle of the Shades' where he is attacked with the cry of Panis! where he is taken prisoner. He becomes 'Astronomer of the Gate of the Gods' and at the end he enters 'propheta' where all secrets are laid bare. He is then ILLUMINATA, ILLUMINUS or ILLUMINATI. All secret societies seem to have VERY similar rituals that all refer back to Egyptian initiation. Date: 08-18-96 (03:01) Number: 812 of 819 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: ggoy@iprolink.ch, GILLES GOY Subj: Masonry/Religion? Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Message-ID: <32166B68.4843@iprolink.ch> Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Hello, I have been reading this newsgroup for months and I see a lot of posting about the religion and freemasonry. I'm a freemason and I don't consider freemasonry as a religion. So, why? There are many postings about the Great Architect, and I can understand this notion could lead people to think that it is a God. Well, I like to consider the G.A. as a symbol. In some way, each "part" of a human being can be seen in all the masonic symbols. A man is a physical, mental and spiritual entity (a very general definition, but I hope it's clear enough). The apron can symbolizes the physical work, the compass (hope it's correct term for the device used in making circles) can be seen as a symbol of human mental creativity, and the like. In his spiritual aspect, man can choose a religion or any other spiritual way, like buddhism. So I consider the Great Architect as a symbol in which brother or sister can "see" his proper spiritual belief. This has the advantage of not imposing any particular religion to masons, so helping to have fraternal ties. Each symbol has a particular signification for each one, as opposed to a dogmatic definition. Now for the religious aspect of freemasonry. It's right we have what we call a ritual. But the ritual doesn't mean religious behaviour. A ritual is a definition of acts to be done and words to be said. Diplomatic protocols are a kind of ritual and are not religious. One of the masonic ritual goal is to keep a tradition and symbolism. There is no prayers in it (and no human sacrifice ;-) There is no worshipping acting. Freemasonry and religion are very compatible, but one can go without the other. I know many people who have found great enlightment in religion without feeling the need to enter our order. I know masons who have a religion and can come to the lodge without feeling guilty, just because it's not a parrallel religion. "Religion" comes from Latin "Religere" which means "to establish links or ties". In a religion, a man tries to strengthen his faith which "links" him to the deity he worships. In freemasonry, the link is between a man and himself or between masons. By "working" on ourselves we simply try to go further in our understanding, by striving to be fraternal we simply make it possible. All I said is only personal point of view, and I'm sure (and rejoy) that other brothers will have different opinions. I heard one day: "You will find in the world what you bring in it", I guess it can also be true for freemasonry. Best regards, Gilles Goy Lausanne, Switzerland. Date: 08-17-96 (23:18) Number: 829 of 852 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: d.robling@ieee.org, DAVE ROBLING Subj: Re: Any help PLEASE!! Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: a Digital Internet AlphaServer Site Message-ID: <3216B5A3.64F@ieee.org> Eugene Goldman.·. wrote: > > David Tordoff wrote: > > > > My father was a Mason and Shriner for many many years in Jamestown, NY. I > > am trying to find out how I can contact the Lodge that he would have been a > > member of. I believe he was 32nd Degree and his name is S. Edward Tordoff. > you might try looking up his > Lodge in the phone book or calling Information for Jamestown. You could also call > the Grand Lodge of NY, I believe they are located in Manhattan. I wish I had the > number to give you, but I'm sure someone here will. > The web address of the GL of NY is http://www.vcomm.net/~amorgan/mason.html the Grand Secretary has an e-mail link on the web site. He should be able to provide you with any available information. Snail mail address is Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons of the State of New York 71 West 23rd St New York, Ny 10010-4170 Phone is 212-741-4515. They also have 1-800-3MASON4. I know the 800 number works within NY but I don't know about the rest of the US. Good Luck. Dave Robling Master Bethany 821 F&AM Black River, NY Date: 08-18-96 (09:37) Number: 830 of 852 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: Freemason@worldnet.att.net, WILLIAM D MADDOX Subj: Re: Satanic cult degrees in freemasonry Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Message-ID: <321746B3.5C90@worldnet.att.net> James C. Young wrote: > > Has anyone heard of any satanic cult degrees that reside above the > 32nd Scottish rite degree or the Order of Knights Templar of th York > Rite? I enjoy reading Science Fiction. Included in that Genre, is a book called Wiza rd's First Rule by Terry Goodkind. In that book, we find that a facet of human natu re is that people have a tendency to belief what they most desire, or most fear. So when people tell lies about Masonry, they are telling people what they most want to hear and belief. That a society of "good" men are led by some type of "evil" o r "satanic" leaders. It does tend to help the general populace to feel better ab out themselves - there is no reason to be a Mason since they are "led" by bad peopl e. Just because they, in their various organizations, spend 2 million or so a day on ch arities, we can soothe our collective conscious by hoping it is for bad reasons. So James, which answer to you want. The Truth, or the one you want to hear? Sincerely - Bill Maddox Oxnard Lodge #341, Grand Lodge of California Oxnard Chapter of Royal Arch Masons Ventura Council of Cryptic Masons Ventura Commandery of Knights Templar Date: 08-18-96 (16:31) Number: 831 of 852 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: dfitch@nexusprime.org, DAN FITCH Subj: Re: HEY WHAT'S THE DEAL Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Message-ID: <32174558.6162874@news.nexusprime.org> On Thu, 15 Aug 1996 03:00:43 -0400, "Acacia Press, Inc." wrote: > >The book "Christianity and American Freemasonry" by William J. Whalen (Our >Sunday Visitor:1987, pgs 23-25) discusses the racism of Freemasonry at >some length, > Typical Acacia Press post; nine year old quote from a dubious source. Get real. The number of Grand Lodges which have recognized each other, on both sides of this issue, has increased dramatically since then; however, Sunday morning in America, at 10:00AM is still the most segregated time of the week. The Acacia Press and Mr Whalen need to relocate from their glass houses. What percentage of white or black church congregations have become racially integrated in the last nine years? Instead of pointing fingers, let's all work to erase bigotry from our lives. Albert Pike makes a nice, long dead target for inuendo and outright lies. I suggest you read "Albert Pike, The Man Beyond the Monument" by Jim Tresner before quoting Whalen's misstatements that Pike was a bigot. Quite the contrary, and proven in the documented deeds and words of the man. He hated inequality determined by race or sex, a trait unusual for his time, and actively worked to promote liberty, fraternity and equality among all men and women. Regards, Dan Fitch, 32°, KT, Noble, and Prophet SD @ Merritt Island #353 F&AM, Merritt Island, FL Date: 08-18-96 (17:53) Number: 832 of 852 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais2.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: HEY WHAT'S THE DEAL Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <4v7lbf$dik@news2.cais.com> In article , Acacia Press, Inc. wrote: > >Here are a few references on role of American Freemasons in creating the >KKK. I should point out the focus here is on American Freemasonry, but one >should note that the actions of these gentlemen is not incompatible with >Freemasonry. If it were, one would expect individuals, lodges and Grand >lodges to be expulsed from the organization. This has not happened. "expulsed"? Have you tried a dictionary? First of all, the _actions_ of any individuals, as opposed to beliefs or words, if they were to engage in lynching, burning, or other such activities, are indeed incompatible with Freemasonry. Since the KKK wear hoods to conceal their identities, it is difficult to ascertain whether any Freemasons have committed _acts_ of an unMasonic nature in connection with the KKK. Do you have any actual _proof_ of any Masons who are members of the KKK who have committed crimes and who have not been punished by the courts and by the Masons? Name names and cases. Mere innuendo is insufficient. Further, since the ballot is secret, one cannot know who, if anyone, has taken any kind of action on a racial basis, unless he himself reveals it. In the one case of such of which I am aware, the Grand Master took swift and firm action. And I happen to know the individual personally whose ballot was rejected for racial reasons, and which ballot was reversed. Contrary to your lies, the Masons do take action. Finally, there is no such concept as "expelling" a Grand Lodge; one can only break fraternal relations among the Lodges. >American racism is OK with the masonic leadership. Maybe still in Mississippi or Alabama, but surely not every leader there. And certainly _not_ among _any_ of the Masonic leaders I know personally, including SGIGs, PGMs, PMIGMs, PGHPs, and plenty of others. One may hear such talk among a few old-timers who are Lodge officers, but it is _not_ the tenor of Masonry at the end of the twentieth century. >In the book Christianity and American Freemasonry, by William J Whalen, on >pages 17-18 we find: > > "A former Confederate general and Freemason, Nathan Bedford Forrest, >founded the Ku Klux Klan and served as its first Imperial Wizard. Albert >Pike held the office of Chief Justice of the Ku Klux Klan while he was >simultaneously Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite, Southern >Jurisdiction. Pike's racism was well known. He expressed his concept of >Masonic brotherhood succinctly: "I took my obligation to White men, not to >Negroes. When I have to accept Negroes as brothers or leave Masonry, I >shall leave it." Some believe Pike concocted the ritual for the original >KKK." Find a few of Pike's other quotes about the need to "improve the Negro race" and provide a balanced portrait. Also, it might be useful to judge Albert Pike by the standards of 12 decades ago, not by the standards of 1996. Just about _everyone_ in the United States, both North and South, considered "the Negro race" to be inferior in those times. I have been given to understand that there was no such office as "Chief Justice of the Ku Klux Klan" as you allege Pike to have held, and this is simply another made-up fact from those who will say anything to discredit Masonry. How about a primary source on this? As far as a statement that begins, "Some believe...," is to be believed--it obviously indicates that most do _not_ believe. Some still believe that the earth is flat... >In The Ku Klux Klan by William Pierce Randel, on page 200 we learn: > > "The Klan shared its Protestant restrictiveness with the Masons and >more than once sought to capitalize on the parallel. Kleagles commonly >remarked to prospects, in an offhand manner, that 'the Klan is, in fact, a >Masonic movement.' Many leading Klansmen, in both the old Klan and the new >were Masons; [Hiram] Evans himself gained the 32nd degree." Since the Masons were a distinguished and respected organization of the time, it is not surprising that an upstart group might try to claim an association with them in hopes that their respectability might rub off. Many individuals have claimed Masonic association for that reason, only to be embarrassed when their deceit was exposed. If you have such contempt for the Ku Klux Klan, why do you suddenly give them credibility when they assert "facts" that would help you in your anti-Masonic crusade? I sure wouldn't trust the "offhand" word of a "Kleagle"--and I note that there are no names given. Pretty vague evidence. And what is this "Protestant restrictiveness" baloney? Jews have been members of the Freemasons for over two hundred years. Several of the founding members of the Scottish Rite Supreme Council for the Southern Jurisdiction of the US were Jewish, as were the founders of Cryptic Masonry in the US. Just one more fabrication to gloss over the inconvenient fact that the KKK is religiously as well as racially intolerant, whereas Freemasonry's Landmarks provide for neither. >Certainly the American masons are trying to clean up their act, but >fundamentally the organization accepts racism, even today, and should >rejected by anyone of integrity. Like you know what "integrity" means, given the evidence of what you post. _Fundamentally_, the organization REJECTS racism. It is in practice, not in its foundations, that we find racist individuals able to misuse the privilege of the ballot to perpetuate their prejudices. You have it exactly backwards. (Why aren't we surprised?) >Of course the ethical problems with Freemasonry extend beyound its racism >into the core beliefs. Here's a quote from the US Anti-Masonic Convention >of 1830 describing FReemasonry: Somehow, I can't believe that anyone is going to accept the word of a group calling itself the "Anti-Masonic Convention" regarding a topic to which they have already declared their opposition. Perhaps you can find a source newer than 166 years old to provide some enlightenment? >"The grosser parts of this machinery, are the secrecy, the private signs, >pass words, tokens, grips, and ciphers; the subtler parts are the >obligations: and the former are valuable only as they are capable of being >employed to give effect to the latter. The obligations, it will be seen, >compelled such as acknowledged them,-- to passive obedience,-- to warn >each other of all approaching danger,-- to conceal each other's crimes, >even the most aggravated,-- to extricate each other from difficulty, right >or wrong,-- to support each other's reputation in all cases,-- to oppose >the interest and blast the character of unfaithful brethren,-- to >sacrifice the traitors of freemasonry,-- to give each other dishonest >preferences, in matters of difference, over the uninitiated,-- and to >advance each other political preferment in opposition to another." And of course, as we read the quote who know what Masons are in truth obligated to, recognize nothing but fiction. Well, maybe, on counting, 10% of the above is accurate, but the rest is nothing but libel. >The Masonic brotherhood extends only to the memebership. Let the >"profane" none members watch out. Masonry roots are profoundly unethical. Masonry's roots are in faith in our Creator, a devotion to the truth, support of brotherhood, not only among Masons but all men, and the promotion of charity. Other than opposition to Freemasonry, what is that _you_ stand for? What are your roots? Your repeated postings of lies, half-truths, dated sources, slanders, and the like show the world exactly who it is that is "profoundly unethical." Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Date: 08-18-96 (14:24) Number: 833 of 852 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: bowen@pegasus.unm.edu, [g bowen] Subj: Re: Genuinely Curious Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Message-ID: <4v793n$e21@lynx.unm.edu> I am told that the E.S. in New Mexico will not recognize a Star from the state of N.Y. Apparently our admission standards are more stringent than N.Y. Remember "Church Lady"? Well, we seem to have some "Star Ladies" in this state. Isn't that special? Rick Reade, Hiram 13 AF&AM, Albuquerque, NM nancy svagerko (nancys@awod.com) wrote: : In article <320EE6F2.5C4A@ieee.org>, Dave Robling says: : >Dr. Roger M. Firestone wrote: : >> I _do_ think that the requirement of Masonic relationship ought to be : >> reconsidered for the Eastern Star RSN--I see no reason why a woman of : >> good character should not have the opportunity to participate in the : >> Masonic family. The concept of relationship derives from the viewpoint : >> of women as chattel, which should never have been contemplated by _Free_ : >> and Accepted Masons in the first place. Since the androgynous groups in : >> Masonry do not derive from ancient traditions but were invented within : >> the lifetimes of our grandfathers, when at least some states had granted : >> the franchise to women, I see much less in the way of an obstacle to : >> making this change. : >> Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH : >I don't know how ith procedure goes in other jurisdictionx, but in NY : >there : >is an alternate method for a woman to join the Order of Eastern Star. A : >woman with no other masonic connection can still join the O.E.S. under : >the : >sponsorship of a MM who is an O.E.S. member. We recently initiated a : >lady who : >is the S.O. of a MM under this provision. : > --snip-- : >Dave Robling : >Master : >Bethany 821 F&AM : >Black River, NY : > : >O.E.S.; AASR, NJ; AANOMS; RAM : > : Dave, : Other jurisdictions are not as liberal. I belong to the OES in SC and : our ritual requires masonic relationship. It has within the last couple : years been expanded to include more distant (for lack of a better word) : relatives instead of just immediate family, but the requirement for : masonic relationship still exists. As I stated in an earlier post because : of this when we have a visitor from NY and I think NJ we have to determine : if there is a masonic relationship if not we can not admit them. Im not : saying I agree with it but as all of us must do, I live with the rules and : regulations of my Grand Chapter. : Nancy Date: 08-18-96 (14:59) Number: 834 of 852 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: bowen@pegasus.unm.edu, [g bowen] Subj: Re: freemasonry and christianity Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: University of New Mexico, Albuquerque Message-ID: <4v7b4d$e21@lynx.unm.edu> Acacia Press, Inc. (acacia@rmc1.crocker.com) wrote: --snip- : Masonic Salvation; Freemasonry Exposed: The Subject Treated From A : Bible Standpoint. Showing The Difference Between Masonic Religion And : Bible Salvation, by Fred Husted Seems old Fred, as well as Acacia Press, conveniently ignore the fact that Freemasonry is not a religion, just to sell a few books. Masonic salvation? I have not come across this yet in my masonic experience. Makes me wonder if these sterling examples of Christian missionary work think that lying, intellectual dishonesty, trash propaganda, paranoia, and lucre are models of Christian behavior. Is the Christian banned from secular or ecumenical community with non-Christians? Last Feb. I visited a field said to be the very place Jesus said "Blessed are the peacemakers..." I doubt that Jesus thought of peacemakers as the kind of manipulative, controlling people that many of the Christian missionary zealots seem to be. Rick Reade, Hiram 13 AF&AM, Albuquerque, NM : Copyright 1996 Acacia Press, Incorporated : MONTAGUE, MASSACHUSETTS. : Originally Published: : circa 1910 : GOSPEL TRUMPET PUBLISHING COMPANY : GRAND JUNCTION, MICHIGAN : PUBLISHER'S PREFACE --long blah, blah, blah tirade snipped-- : Acacia Press, Incorporated : http://www.crocker.com/~acacia/index.html : PO BOX 154, Montague, MA 01351 Date: 08-18-96 (09:30) Number: 822 of 852 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: Lester@bigles1.demon.co.uk, LESTER KNIGHTEN Subj: Re: HEY WHAT'S THE DEAL Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) >As I sit here in Scotland, A Black American, also RWM of Lodge 1676 under the GLS I wonder what I have to look forward to when I come back to America >Reading the views and expressions here make me wonder if our brethren black >or white even remember what the word fraternity means. Are we lost in the >very politics that we discourage? Americans can't keep reliving its past >mistakes. It's a vicious cycle of ignorance that has no place in >freemasonry. The "fraternity" I feel when I travel from lodge to lodge >here in Scotland is unmatched by any other "fraternal" experience I've had. >This includes long under water trips with over a hundred men at sea on a >submarine. It pains me that to think that our brethren are shaping their >ideas of what is "regular" and what is "not regular" based on skin color >and a dubious past. Well I guess I'm a paradox. I'm black. I'm not PH. >I'm a RWM under GLS. How am I to be received when I come Maryland or any >other state? --------------------------------------------------------------------------- | Lester Knighten EMail Lester@ | | Mail sent via Demon Internet - Full IP for 10/Month Tel:0181 371 1234 | --------------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: 08-18-96 (05:37) Number: 825 of 852 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: ezpost@primenet.com, BERNARD DURGIN Subj: Re: Arizona Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Easy Post Systems Message-ID: <4v72pd$hsi@nnrp1.news.primenet.com> In article <4ur4ak$p3@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, tomasball@aol.com (Tomas Ball) wrote: > Path: news.primenet.com!nntp.primenet.com!news.texas.net!cdc2.cdc.net!vixen.c s > o.uiuc.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!newsxfer2.itd.umich.edu!portc01.blue.aol. c > om!newstf01.news.aol.com!newsbf02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail > From: tomasball@aol.com (Tomas Ball) > Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry > Subject: Arizona > Date: 13 Aug 1996 19:49:40 -0400 > Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) > Lines: 5 > Sender: root@newsbf02.news.aol.com > Message-ID: <4ur4ak$p3@newsbf02.news.aol.com> > Reply-To: tomasball@aol.com (Tomas Ball) > NNTP-Posting-Host: newsbf02.mail.aol.com > Xref: news.primenet.com alt.freemasonry:22465 > > Please...what is going on in Arizona. I hear dard rumblings, but nobody > has spelled out for me what all the brouhaha is. > > Tom Ball PM > San Juan Texas What has happened is this: Our Junior Past Grand Master was convicted (3 to 1 GUILTY VOTE) of violating our constitution in a Masonic trial (Jan. 20), he was given a constitutionally illegal sentence, and the whole matter was exponged from the Grand Lodge record at our Annual Communication May 22. He also established a private business (the Arizona Masonic Foundation for Children) WITHIN the Grand Lodge, empowered himself to receive and manage all charitable contributions to the Grand Lodge, and personally hand-picked the directors of the foundation (there is no membership), without so much as a vote of the lodges. I have the Articles of Incorporation and By-Laws for this foundation and is is unequivocally a privately owned business that our Grand Lodge has no control over whatsoever. After all this, we elected this same individual to th e Board of Trustees for 3 years! We were clearly shown the laws, rules and regulations are meant only for the "little guy," that the constitution can and will be subbverted when a member of the "good ole boys club" is involved, and that the other "good ole boys" lack the guts and integrity to do what is truly best for Masonry (apply the law equally and impartially for all)! Several members have dimitted in disgust, realizing the fraternity is now being used as a vehicle for the formation of a "charity business" (United Way, etc.), and that the entire elected line is part of the mess (they are the directors of this foundation). This is only part of the story. I have the documentation, I was one of the 2 prosecutors at the GM's trial Jan. 20, I know what I'm talking about! If you want more on this story, see: ftp://thelonious.mit.edu/pub/Masonry/Reports/az.html Bernard Durgin, PM Tucson, AZ Minutes Used: 1 Date: 08-18-96 (20:55) Number: 853 of 873 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: pedrotti@aol.com, PEDROTTI Subj: Re: 33deg questions Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364) Message-ID: <4v8e2s$9mn@newsbf02.news.aol.com> In article <4v5kdp$q0g@jaxnet.southeast.net>, dsale@users.southeast.net (Danny Sale) writes: Danny, I have taken the liberty of inserting my comments after each of your points, since your exposition of Masonry might tend to slightly confuse the reader who does not appreciate the vastness of the distance between anything you write and any version of reality. Regards, Peter Pedrotti, PM, WM, 32* Oakland, CA USA >My friend, Don't let him kid you, Folks. Friends do not try to falsely mislead friends. >I have sent you information (read 'bovine rejectamenta') >pertaining to this matter..It must be noted that in the master degree of freemasonry There is no such degree. Perhaps he refers to the Sublime Degree of Master Mason, but with this level of scholarship, let's not make too many assumptions. >, the initiate Actually, we call him 'Brother' or 'Fellowcraft'. >is symbolically killed and reborn Not true. He is symbolically killed and his corpse is removed from a temporary grave for decent burial. A fine point to a brilliant scholar like Danny, but we do not practice any kind of resurrection, real or symbolic. We are not a religion, no matter what he tries to claim. >as he enters the Gate of Death There is no such thing refered to in Masonry. >and Sanctuary of the Spirits No such thing is refered to in Masonry. >after refusing the Kings Which king? Solomon, King of Israel? Hiram, King of Tyre? Bro. Martin Luther King? >offer to quit Quit what? No such offer is ever made in a Masonic ritual. >if he does not have enough courage. There is no test of courage in California Masonry. Now, the French Degree of Entered Apprentice does take a little faith and nerve, but these are tested after the Candidate has already been accepted as an Apprentice, so no failure of courage counts. >He undergos (sic) the 'Battle of the Shades' No such thing figures in Masonry. >where he is attacked with the cry of Panis! No such thing happens in Masonry. Do you mean 'Penis!'? Now that's definitely something else. >where he is taken prisoner. No such thing ever happens, actually or symbolically, in Masonry. >He becomes 'Astronomer of the Gate of the Gods' No such rank, title or position obtains in Masonry. Which "Gods" (plural)? Even an idiot knows we are monotheistic, if it can be said we are theistic at all. Anyway, astronomers study stars, not gates. And city gates are sorry sites for observatories. Smoke and light, you know. Read a book. >and at the end of what? >he enters 'propheta' No such thing exists in Masonry. Probably no such thing exists anywhere. Did Danny invent that for himself, or did he read it on a toilet partition? >where all secrets are laid bare. No such thing in Masonry. We don't have any secrets and wouldn't bare them anyway. What's a bare secret anyway? What the bare does in the woods? >He is then ILLUMINATA, ILLUMINUS or ILLUMINATI. Does this really mean he is simultaneously "a lighted woman", "a male light" and "several lighted men"? Get a highschool Latin book. No such terms are ever used in Masonry. It's an obvious filament of your illumination. >All secret societies seem Oh, you're a member of all the secret societies (whatever they are), so you can make this comparison? Oops, you only wrote 'seem', the true depth of your investigations. I take it back. >to have VERY similar Obviously not VERY similar, as *absolutely nothing* you've written here even vaguely resembles anything in Masonry. >rituals that all refer back to Egyptian initiation. Which Egyptian initiation? Under a polytheism there would probably be many. Does anyone have even a clue as to what they may have included? Masonry does not. Masonic ritual alludes to ancient Israeli, Greek, Roman and Medieval architecture. No Egyptian architecture or ritual. Get a job cutting limestone with bronze saws in the hot desert air. It'll do you good. Sorry Danny, but you are as chock-full of xenogeneic guano as ever. If any of the stuff you spout resembles anything having to do with the rituals of any Masonic jurisdiction, I would be very surprised. Date: 08-19-96 (01:07) Number: 854 of 873 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: hiram1@capital.net, HIRAM1 Subj: Re: The Test For Freemasonry Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.religion.christian,alt.freemasonry,alt.masonic.members Organization: Message-ID: <4v8ep6$fbq@Usenet.Logical.NET> On 1996-08-17 don said: >FREEMASONRY >A GRAND CHAPLAIN >SPEAKS OUT >GRAND LODGE >FREE AND ACCEPTED MASONS >OF THE >STATE OF NEW YORK >GRAND CHAPLAIN >1983-1984 >REV. HARMON R. TAYLOR >NOVEMBER 25, 1984 >Dear Servant of God, >Knowing that you desire to serve the Lord with all your heart, I >share this letter with you. Perhaps you have been struggling with >the same situation. >On November 22nd, I sent the facts contained in this letter to all >masonic >bodies of which I am a member. I invite you to prayerfully read it. >It >will explain why I as a Grand Chaplain of the Grand Lodge of Free >and Accepted Masons of the State of New York am requesting a demitt >from all bodies of the masonic fraternity. There is much more that >I could share. >I would be happy to share more if it will help you in the Lord's >service. >Many have asked me if Freemasonry is a religion. I have always >responded >"No". Others have told me that it is a religion. Study has >revealed the >fact that learned writers in the fraternity say MASONRY IS A >RELIGION. The >Lord Jesus Christ said, "In the mouth of two or three witnesses, >every word >is established" (Matthew 18:16). In order to be brief, I will quote >only >four masonic authorities that masonry is a religion. >Albert Mackey, one of the most well known masonic authorities, >wrote in A >LEXICON OF FREEMASONRY (Pg. 402): "The religion, then, masonry, is >pure theism...". >Albert Pike, the most important of all American masonic authorities >wrote >in MORALS AND DOGMA (Pg. 213-214): "Every masonic lodge is a temple >of religion, and its teachings are instructions in religion...this >is true religion revealed to the ancient patriarchs; which masonry >has taught for >many centuries, and which it will continue to teach as long as time >endures. >J.S.M. Ward, a masonic authority who has written several important >books on >masonry, wrote in his book FREEMASONRY: ITS AIMS & IDEALS (Pg.185): >"I consider freemasonry is a significantly organized school of >mysticism to be >entitled to be called a religion." Ward continues on page 187, >"Freemasonry...taught that each man can by himself, work out his own >conception of god and thereby achieve salvation." It holds that >there are >many paths that lead to the throne of the all-loving father which >all start >from a common source. Freemasonry believes, according to Ward, >"that though these paths appear to branch off in various directions, >yet they all >reach the same ultimate goal, and that to some men, one path is >better and to other, another. >"Frank C. Higgins, a high mason, wrote in ANCIENT FREE MASONRY (Pg. >10), "It is true that Freemasonry is the parent of all religionl" >These masonic witnesses all agree in their doctrine that masonry is, >indeed, a religion. It is necessary now to ascertain whether >masonry is >a true religion or a false religion. In an article entitled, "HOW >TO RECOGNIZE A FALSE RELIGION" (Faith for the Family Nov/Dec 1974), >a prominent Christian leader wrote: "All false religions, have some >things >in common. Here are three simple tests by which any religion >should be judged; >FIRST: What is its attitude toward the Bible? >SECOND: Any religious teaching should be tested by this question; >What is >its attitude toward Jesus Christ? >THIRD: In judging a religious system, we should ask, What is its >attitude >toward the blood of Jesus Christ!" >According to these three tests, masonry is a false religion >manifesting a >satanic attitude toward the Bible, the Deity of Jesus Christ, and >the blood atonement of Jesus Christ. In order to establish this >charge, keep in >mind the Word of our Lord Jesus Christ who said, "In the mouth of >two or three >witnesses every word shall be established. Please consider now the >testimony of masonic authorities which reveal masonry's satanic >attitude >toward the Bible, the Deity of Jesus Christ and the vicarious >atonement for the sins of mankind by the shedding of christ's blood >on the cross. >Joseph Ford Newton, a famous authority and writer, in an article >entitled >"The Bible and Masonry" wrote "The bible so rich in symbolism is >itself a >symbol...thus, by the very honor which masonry pays the Bible, it >teaches >us to revere every book of faith in which men find help for today >and hope for tomorrow, joining hands with the man of Islam as he >takes his oath on >the Koran, with the Hindu as he makes covenant with God upon the >book that he loves best." >Albert Pike, in Morals & Dogma, wrote (Pg.718) "Masonry propagates >no creed except it's own most simple sublime one; that universal >religion, taught >by nature and reason." >One who is truly born-again can see from the above statement that >masonry >totally rejects the doctrine of an infallible, God-breathed, >inerrant Bible. >According to the Second Test, masonry is a false religion because it >totally rejects the crucial doctrine of the Deity of the Lord Jesus >Christ. >J.D. Buck, M.D., another masonic writer of importance, in his book >Symbolism of Mystic Masonry wrote (Pg.57) "In the early Church as in >the >secret doctrine, there was not one Christ for the world but a >potential Christ in every man. Theologians first made a fettish of >the impersonal, >Omnipresent divinity; and then tore the Christos from the hearts of >all humanity in order to Deify Jesus; that they might have a God-Man >particularly their own." >One would have to look far and wide in the writings of false >teachers to >find statements more blasphemous than this about the person of Jesus >Christ, my Lord. >According to the Third Test, masonry is a false religion because >masonry >dogmatically rejects the doctrine of salvaion from the penalty of >sin by >faith in the vicarious atonement of Christ's shed blood on the >cross. >Thomas Milton Steward, another masonic author, in his book Symbolic >Teaching on Masonry and Its Message, to support his doctrine quoted >favorable an apostate Episcopal minister who wrote (Pg.177), "Did >Jesus count Himself, conceive of Himself as a proprietary sacrifice >and of His >work as an expiation? The only answer possible is, clearly, He did >not...He does not call Himself the world's priest, or the world's >victim." >Salvation by Faith in the vicarious atonement are not "ingnorant >perversions of the original doctrines" as masonry teaches, but they >are vital ingredients of the Glorious Gospel of Christ, which is >the power of >God unto Salvation to everyone who believes. THEREFORE, masonry >fails all three tests. It manifests a satanic attitude toward the >Bible, the Deity >of Christ, and the vicarious atonement. In addition to failing >these tests, there is much more proof that masonry is a false >religion. >For instance, Henry C. Clausen, 33 degree, Sovereign Grand >Commander of >the Supreme Council 33 Degree mother council of the world, in the >NEW AGE, November, 1970, (Pg.4) wrote regarding masonry, "It is >dedicated to >bringing about the Fatherhood of God, the Brotherhood of Man, and >making >better men in a better world." >The doctrine of the Fatherhood of God and the Brotherhood of Man is >not found in the Bible. It is a doctrine taught consistently by >apostates. Also, the Bible makes it crystal clear that no >organization, masonry included, can make better men. Only God can >make better men! >According to a masonic creed, found in the Masonic Bible, masonry >teaches >that "character determines destiny." >The teaching that character determines destiny is a false doctrine >of the >Arch Deceiver of Souls. The Bible says, "There is none that doeth >good," >and "For by Grace are you saved through faith, and that not of >yourselves; it is a gift of God, not of works, lest any man should >boast." >Masonry is anti-Christian in its teachings. For example, J.M. Ward >in FREEMASONRY - ITS AIMS AND IDEALS wrote (Pg.187), "I boldly >avere that freemasonry is a religion, yet it no way conflicts with >any other religion, unless that religion holds that no one outside >its portals can be saved." >Ward, in his statement, reveals the fact that masonry has no >conflict with any apostate religion on the face of the earth, but >he also reveals that >masonry is in conflict with Christianity. The Bible says, "Neither >is there salvation in any other, for there is none other name under >heaven given among men whereby we MUST be save" (Acts 4:12). Jesus >said, "No man cometh unto the Father but by Me." (Jn. 14:6). The >Bible is plainly >teaching that there is only one way to heaven and that is Christ. >A prominent college president said of masonry, "It is a luciferian >religion. We are fully aware of its diabolical origin and purpose. >I believe that any born-again Christian, when the facts from the >lips of masonic writers themselves are presented showing that >masonry is a religion and is the worship of Satan, will immediately >withdraw." To this I must >add my hearty agreement! >The God and Father of the Lord Jesus Christ, the only True and >Living God, has clearly commanded Christians, "Be ye not unequally >yolked together >with unbelievers, and swear not at all, and have no fellowship with >the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them." >Charles Finney, the famed evangelist who God used to bring a >revival in America in the 1830's, in his book, FREEMASONRY wrote >(Pg.115), "Surely, >if masons really understood what Masonry is, as it is delineated in >these >books, no Christian Mason would think himself to remain at liberty >to remain another day a member of the fraternity. It is as plain as >possible that a man knowing what it is, and embracing it in his >heart, cannot be a >Christian man. To say he can is to belie the very nature of >Christianity." >For me, the signs of the time compared with prophetic Scripture, >make it >apparent that we are living in the last days prior to the Rapture of >the >Church. Satan is hard at work trying to hinder believers' spiritual >growth, as well as trying to keep the unsaved from entering God's >Family. >Freemasonry, I have come to believe, is one of Satan's master >deceptions. >Many ministers, elders, deacons, trustees, and Sunday School >teachers belong to this cult. Today, my membership ends! Today, a >new ministry begins. There is a tremendous need to scrutinize the >cultic nature of Freemasonry in view of the massive infiltration of >its effects on the working body of the Church. It should be >exposed to the True Light - Jesus Christ! >Love in Christ, Harmon R. Taylor >FOR INFORMATION CONTACT REV. HARMON R. TAYLOR >BOX 12 NEWTONVILLE, NY 12128 >OR >FREE THE MASONS MINISTRIES >P.O. BOX 1077 >ISSAQUAH, WA 98027 Now lets look at Mr. Taylor, for he was "self ordained". The real reasons he left Masonry were the following: 1. He felt slighted because he craved a District Deputy appointment and received Grand Chaplin instead. 2. He felt the Fraternity should support him in his "right to life" activities. As Masonry does not take political stands, the organization couldn't support him although many brethern individually did. I knew him from Lodge and heard the above trash read in Lodge, but the telling info was the above reasons which he admitted to concerning his demitting from the Fraternity. By the way, does Mr. Taylor still work for the agency in State Government that funds abortions, or has he retired? Nice to see him put his money where his mouth is. WHENCE CAME YOU W.'. Donald C. Moore `[1;34;40mNet-Tamer V 1.05.1 - Registered Date: 08-19-96 (07:41) Number: 855 of 873 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rifleman@ezonline.com, JAMES C YOUNG Subj: Re: Satanic cult degrees in freemasonry Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Microserve Information Systems (800)-380-INET Message-ID: <4v95ub$g6t@crash.microserve.net> "William D. Maddox" wrote: >James C. Young wrote: >> >> Has anyone heard of any satanic cult degrees that reside above the >> 32nd Scottish rite degree or the Order of Knights Templar of th York >> Rite? >I enjoy reading Science Fiction. Included in that Genre, is a book called Wiz ard's >First Rule by Terry Goodkind. In that book, we find that a facet of human nat ure is >that people have a tendency to belief what they most desire, or most fear. >So when people tell lies about Masonry, they are telling people what they most want to >hear and belief. That a society of "good" men are led by some type of "evil" or >"satanic" leaders. It does tend to help the general populace to feel better a bout >themselves - there is no reason to be a Mason since they are "led" by bad peop le. Just >because they, in their various organizations, spend 2 million or so a day on c harities, >we can soothe our collective conscious by hoping it is for bad reasons. >So James, which answer to you want. The Truth, or the one you want to hear? >Sincerely - Bill Maddox >Oxnard Lodge #341, Grand Lodge of California >Oxnard Chapter of Royal Arch Masons >Ventura Council of Cryptic Masons >Ventura Commandery of Knights Templar Thanks brother Maddox. Some so called Christains tried to tell me these falsehoods and I wanted to find out if anyone ever heard of any organization that are so-called Masons had degrees over the ones that I have achieved. This person is a very off the wall about many things and tried to make me quit with a false message from God by acting that she was in a trance. She said that she was hired to clean a woman's house that had Satanic Masonic symbols on an archway and she had a strange sensation when she was in this house. The lady was also suppose to be in Eastern Star, not the one who was telling me this story. Sincerely- ,James C. Young Casiphia Lodge #551 of Pennsylvania Valley of Lancaster Lodge of Perfection Valley of Harrisburg Consistory Zembo Temple Date: 08-19-96 (14:44) Number: 860 of 873 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais3.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: HEY WHAT'S THE DEAL Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <4v9uk3$725@news2.cais.com> In article , Acacia Press, Inc. wrote: > >Dr. Firestone, > >Life is to short to dig up references for you to discard at will. I did >find one section of you're remarks really illuminating. In other words, you don't have any. >On 18 Aug 1996, Dr. Roger M. Firestone wrote: >> >> _Fundamentally_, the organization REJECTS racism. It is in practice, >> not in its foundations, that we find racist individuals able to misuse >> the privilege of the ballot to perpetuate their prejudices. You have it >> exactly backwards. (Why aren't we surprised?) >> > >You and, I believe, your brother Masons don't really preceive a problem >when Masonic "practice" is unethical. You find ways to excuse, to >obfuscate, to attack the person who points out the problem. You are >incapable of or unwilling to see the flaws in a profoundly flawed >organization. I encourage others to really investigate the organization >before taking vows which you may come to regret. In the first place, none of us agrees that our organization is "profoundly flawed." Your allegation that I don't perceive a problem with unethical practices is false. The question is, what can be done about it within the constraints of friendship. I'm sure that you have no friends with character flaws at all, of course, so you never have to tell one of them that you intend never to speak with him again when he does something that doesn't meet your standards. On the other hand, it is very difficult to determine how to deal with a man who is the salt of the earth, a good family man, a hard worker for Masonry and its charities, but has a blind spot regarding those of a different race. If the presence of a few individuals is sufficient to discredit an entire organization, then the number of Christians who have turned out to be serious criminals, not just racists (tell me about the proportion of African Americans who are members of Southern Baptist churches, please) is sufficient to discredit the entire religion. The Church has been preaching morality for two thousand years, and mankind is not yet composed of all saints and no sinners. Shouldn't the Church and Christian religion be ditched as being totally incapable of achieving its mission and being "profoundly flawed?" >Take a look at the Acacia Press site or contact the Christian Research >Institute or read the books "The Brotherhood" by Stephen Knight and >"Inside the Brotherhood" by Martin Short. There are other organizations >listed in the "related sites" page in the Acacia Press site listed below. I don't need to read Martin Short or Stephen Knight in detail to know that their lurid conspiracy theories don't hold water. Nor do I need to "contact the Christian Research Institute" for their "explanation" of why Christians can't belong to an organization that promotes religious toleration. I've heard it all before, dozens of times in the nearly twenty years I've been a Mason, and not one shred of it is convincing. How much money did Knight make from his fantasy presented as truth? (How many people believe that Elvis is alive? You can find lots of printed material claiming that, too.) >You probably won't find anyone performing overtly Satanic Rituals, you >will find an organization which inspired one American critic to >write in 1829 after the Masonic murder of Captain William Morgan: As if it hasn't been demonstrated conclusively that Morgan was never murdered but left the country for Canada and ultimately settled in Central America? The evidence of the time demonstrates that the alleged murder of Morgan by Masons was a fabricated allegation to defame the Masons for political reasons. >"It is to be hoped that an institution whose very principles lead directly >to such horrid outrages, and which is entirely made up of dissimulation >and fraud, will be completely suppressed in this country and throughout >the world, and that a barrier be instituted to prevent it from ever again >polluting the earth with its insidious influence. But the public must not >expect to accomplish this desirable object without unwanted pains and >incessant vigilance; their task is but commencing, and, should they lack >in circumspection or perseverance, the monster will yet flourish with more >power and commit greater enormities than ever." I thought about [snip]ing the above, but it is more amusing to let its predictions of "greater enormities" stand the test of observation and history. Since the Anti-Masonic Party, like the Know-Nothings and their anti-Catholicism or the States' Rights Party and its racism, has long since ceased to be, we should certainly be hip-deep in blood and corpses if the Masonic fraternity is anything like the above paragraph alleges. Without dedicated anti-Masons, the Freemasons surely must be slaughtering their enemies, committing all sorts of outrages, and running the world to suit themselves, with everyone else as slaves. The odd thing is that we observe nothing of the sort. Not only was Capt. Wm. Morgan not murdered by Masons, nobody ever _has been_ murdered for Masonic reasons. There is no "dissimulation and fraud" in Masonry; the books of our charities, which are the only places that public money is received by donation, are openly audited. (Masonic charities see that something like 95% of donations go to providing actual services. For most charities, the number is 60% or less. Compare the United Way--William Aramony scandal with the probity of operation of Shriners' Hospitals. Name just one instance of fraud in the use of Masonic funds that came from the public. Oh, I forgot, "life is too short" to write facts instead of innuendoes.) If the Anti-Masonic Party had had truth on its side, it would have prevailed, not Freemasonry. When the agitators had taken the public for a long enough ride that the supply of suckers was exhausted, the group died out. Now you seek to revive its principles, long dismissed. Are you another sucker (the supply is replenished at 60 per hour, I hear) or are you one of the grifters? Since you seem to be running a publishing house, an activity usually done with intent to profit, I think I know the answer. >Well written! Good luck! Somehow, I think your wishes were meant ironically. But I expect fortune, or Providence, to smile more on my efforts than on yours. Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~rfire/masonry/ Date: 08-19-96 (11:04) Number: 861 of 873 (Refer# NONE) Date: 08-19-96 (18:57) Number: 871 of 873 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: ghelmer@planet.eon.net, GEORGE HELMER Subj: Freemasonry and Religion Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: ED TEL PLAnet Internet Services Message-ID: <32191B8D.6D66@planet.eon.net> Freemasonry and Religion by George A. Burns, MPS THE PHILALETHES - AUGUST 1988 When we were made Masons, we were given some working tools and we were invested with a leather apron. We were told that we were now equipped to go forth and earn a master's wages and to perform the work of a Mason. I would like to talk about the tools, the wages and the work of a Mason. A Mason is invested with many Working Tools, and there are times when we need every one of them. However, I am going to direct your attention to three, the Three Great Lights of Masonry, the Square, Compass, and the Holy Bible. The need to emphasize the quality of life has never been greater in the history of our country. Recently Vice President George Bush addressed the graduating class of the Naval Academy. He congratulated them on their achievements and said he hoped this class would not only reflect academic excellence but more importantly that their lives would reflect the motto of the Naval Academy: Duty, Honor, Country. Quality of life is a prime concern of Freemasonry. We are invested with the Square and the Compass. They are like the motto of Masonry. They stand for virtue and morality, friendship and brotherly love. They are the badge each Mason wears with honor. They tell you the kind of man he is and the kind of life he lives. The chief tool of a Mason and his guide in life is the Holy Bible. The Holy Bible is the Great Light of Masonry. It has center focus in our Lodge Room, and in our ritual, and our important teachings are based on it. Of course Masons respect the religious beliefs of others. Some men may read different volumes and call God by a different name, but we are all praying to the one God and Father of all, and we are all struggling every day to build His Kingdom. The Right Worshipful and Reverend Joseph Fort Newton said, "The Bible...is seen by Masonry as a symbol of that eternal Book of the Will of God which Lowell described in those memorable lines: 'Slowly the Bible of the race is writ And not on paper leaves nor leaves of stone, Each age, each kindred, adds a verse to it: Texts of despair or hope, of joy or moan'." At Initiation, every candidate is led to the altar where he asks for Divine guidance. On that occasion many lodges present the candidate with a personal inscribed copy of the Holy Bible charging him to study it carefully, for it is the foundation of a righteous life. All of us received a Holy Bible from the Consistory. This fine Masonic Bible shows the scriptural background for every degree in Masonry. The Bible is the Mason's chief tool. It is the basis for the religious and moral life to which all Masons are called. This is what Masonry is all about. This is the reason for its existence. Masonry has no other function. Let us paraphrase some of the prayers we use in lodge. In God's Name we assemble and meet together and we humbly beseech God to bless all our undertakings. For each new candidate of Freemasonry we pray that he may dedicate his life to God's service and become a true and faithful brother among us. And when we go forth into the world, we pray that we will practice out of the lodge those principles of religion and morality we are taught within it. The Wages of a Mason are explained in various ways in several degrees of both the York and Scottish Rite. The Mark Master Degree of the York Rite is largely concerned with a Mason's wages. It uses the familiar parable of the Kingdom of Heaven found in the twentieth chapter of St. Matthew's Gospel. It states that a householder hired laborers for his vineyard. They agreed for a penny a day for their wages. He then hired additional workers at the third, sixth and ninth hours. He even hired a few workers just one hour before closing time. At the end of the day he gave each worker a penny. Those hired at the beginning of the day complained, but the householder said, "You agreed to work for a penny, take your wages and go." Now this parable was not intended to be a treatise on economics. Inflation has almost done away with the penny, but even at the time of Christ, workers saw that paying the same wage for vastly different amounts of work was simply unfair. But Christ wasn't talking about ordinary workers. He was talking about workers in the Kingdom of God, and we Masons are part of that happy group. We are laborers in the vineyard of God's Kingdom and any earthly reward we may receive pales in comparison with the rewards we receive from God. A Mason's wages are the joy he receives from loving and serving God and being a brother to his fellow man. A Mason doesn't try to see how much he can get, but how much of himself he can give. The lives of all Masons illustrate this joy of giving. Let me tell you about two Masonic friends of mine in Jacksonville, Florida. If they were here they would be embarrased for they are very self-effacing. They are Ray O'Dwyer and Richard Jones and both are members of Morocco Temple. They are active in every project the Shrine sponsors to help crippled children. Everything they do is undertaken with a joy and enthusiasm that infects all of us. You have heard the saying, "I wouldn't do that for a million dollars." Well, they would tell you they would not do what they do for a million dollars, or even five million. They do it because they love to help people. If you go to Jacksonville, be sure to visit Morocco Temple. It is just being completed. Inside the entrance of this magnificent building you will be impressed with the spacious ceramic tile foyer. Ray and Richard donated many hours after work and weekends to lay this tile. Everytime I enter the Temple, I do so with a sense of respect and appreciation for their hard work and the sacrifices they made. They received no monetary reward, but they did receive a Master's wages, the joy of helping others. Every day Masons perform acts of charity; most of them not as well known as the Shrine Hospitals. Many are known only to the giver, to the one who receives and to God. For our Masonic ritual teaches us in the words of Scripture: "While we have time, let us do good unto all men: And especially unto them that are of the household of faith." The work that a Mason performs is the work of the Lord. The Eighteenth Degree of the Scottish Rite echoes the words of St. Paul in I Corinthians 15:58, "Therefore my beloved brethren, be ye steadfast, unmovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, for as much as ye know that your labor is not in vain in the Lord." Masonry teaches us that every Mason must determine for himself the work God calls him to do. I have always felt that doing the work of the Lord means putting forth your best effort in everything you do and living each day to the glory of God. Seen in that light, even the most humble task we perform has value in God's sight. This point was made by Brother Charles, who was for many years head of a monastic order in the Episcopal Church called the Brothers of St. Barnabas. The brothers operated a home for sick and homeless men and boys near Pittsburgh. Brother Charles told of a time when several young men visited the monastery to try out for the monastic life. One was assigned the task of mowing the lawn. After mowing the grass for a number of hours he came to Brother Charles and said, "I don't see why I must mow the lawn. I came here to the monastery to live a life of prayer." Brother Charles said, "We do live a life of prayer here at the monastery, but we pray while we work." It seems one of the other Novices did pick up the proper spirit. Every morning one of the Brothers would call everyone to morning prayers. He would knock on the door of each cell and say, "Let us bless the Lord." The proper reply was, "Thanks be to God." But when he knocked on the door of one of the Novices and said "Let us bless the Lord", the reply came back, "Wait until I get my pants on." The work of a Mason is not so much the task that is performed, it is the focus. And the focus of life for a Mason is love of God and love of his neighbor. Because of this focus, Freemasons believe that every man is of equal importance to God. Masons meet on the level. My cousin, the late Charles Lutton, a member of Harrisburg Consistory, and Lieutenant in the Pennsylvania State Police told of a personal experience he had as a young trooper. When Edward Martin became Governor of Pennsylvania, he called in the head of the State Police and said he wanted a list of troopers who were also Masons. From this list the Governor chose all of his guards and drivers. My cousin was one of those so selected. The Governor said to him, "I am a Mason and as I travel over the State, I plan to visit Masonic lodges. When I do, I want my driver to come in Lodge and sit with me." I know of no other place where the lessons of brotherhood are taught more clearly than in Masonic Lodge, a place where the driver can sit beside the Governor. It is a place where social distinctions do not apply for they are brothers all. Because our focus is on God, we believe with George Washington and our founding fathers that it was with God's help that we won our freedoms and liberties. And we Masons believe that it is only with God's help that our freedoms will be maintained. I am an Eagle Scout and have many happy memories of my Scouting experiences. Those of you who are Scouts will recall with me the Scout Oath which begins, "On my honor I will do my best to do my duty to God and my country..." Imagine my shock when I read in the paper about a year ago of a court case in West Virginia regarding the Boy Scouts. It seems that a Boy Scout, who said he was an atheist, resented saying the Scout Oath. His mother, also an atheist, took the case to court. The jury decided in her favor and the Judge ruled that the Boy Scouts would have to remove the objectionable words from the oath. The Boy Scouts decided instead to keep the same words, but include a notation saying that the word "God" does not refer to the Supreme Being. The boy from the atheist family said that was acceptable to him and that he could now say the oath with a clear conscience. We wondered how the boy could have a conscience when he did not believe in God. Atheism must never be allowed to take over our country. Atheism will destroy organizations like the Boy Scouts. It will destroy our institutions and our morals. Karl Marx said "Religion is the opiate of the people." Atheism is the basic ingredient of Communism. Masonry is God centered, and our witness for God challenges atheism wherever it may be found. A Mason's focus is on God, but he respects the religious practices of others. Today we see the moral fiber of our country under attack. Military leaders, religious leaders, politicians have all been accused of less than honorable pursuits. Does this mean Americans are loosing their moral values? Probably not. The mere fact that we are outraged by the conduct of these leaders means that we expect more from them. Actually I believe that down the road our main problem will not be the loss of religion and morals. It may very well come from some religious organization or group of moral crusaders who attempt to impose their particular brand of religion on everyone. The editor of the "Wall Street Journal", Robert L. Hartley, spoke on this aspect of ethics when he addressed the graduating class of Babson College in May, "In 1969, Yale President Kingman Brewster convened a program on the question 'What is happening to morality today?' The great constitutional scholar Alexander Bickel answered him, 'It threatens to engulf us."' Masonry respects the religious views of others and helps keep our country from being engulfed by religious zealots who would deprive us of our freedom of choice. This unique contribution of Freemasonry was captured almost a century ago by the Right Reverend Brother Henry C. Potter, Episcopal Bishop of New York when he wrote in 1901: "Freemasonry, however, is in my view of it a great deal more than a mutual benefit association. In one sense, wild and extravagant as the words may sound, it is the most remarkable and altogether unique institution on earth. Will you tell me of any other that girdles the world with its fellowship and gathers all races and the most ancient religions, as well as our own, into its brotherhood? Will you tell me of any other that is as old or older; more brilliant in its history; more honored in its constituency, more picturesque in its traditions? Today it lies in the hand of modern man largely an unused tool, capable of great achievements for God, for country, for mankind; but doing very little. For one, I believe that circumstances may easily arise when the highest and most sacred of all freedoms being threatened in this land, Freemasonry may be its most powerful defender, unifying all minds and commanding our best citizenship." We Masons are all builders in the Kingdom of God and we pray that when we finally put down our working tools, we may say with St. Paul, "I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith." Christian, in "Pilgrim's Progress" by John Bunyon said, "I leave my sword and my shield and my courage to those who would come after me. I will keep my scars, for they show the road I have travelled and the battles I have fought." We Masons leave our Masonic teachings and fellowship to all who seek excellence in life. We will take with us our white leather apron and sprig of Acacia for they show the road we have travailed with the many good and worthy brethren who have travelled the same road before us. Let us all Brothers, rededicate ourselves to our high calling of God in the words of the prayer from the 18th degree of the Scottish Rite: "We thank Thee, O God our Father, that we are set here amidst a rich brotherhood of kindred spirits, united in a quest for truth and for radiance of the New Law. Here may we commit ourselves to the high tasks which await our hands; to the fulfillment of duties seen in moments of vision; to the building of a nobler life for mankind. Grant unto us, we beseech Thee, the confidence of a valiant faith, the comfort of a reasonable, religious and holy hope, and that spirit of charity for all mankind which is the true bond of fellowship. Amen." <> <> << >> << >> << >> << >> <<>> <<>> <<>> ============================== <<>> <<>> George Helmer <<>> <<>> WM Norwood Lodge #90 <<>> <<>> Grand Lodge of Alberta <<>> <<>> ghelmer@planet.eon.net <<>> <<>> Bus: ghelmer@env.gov.ab.ca <<>> <<>> ============================== <<>> << >> << >> ====== ====== Everyone is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him/her to be untrue or unsound. - Morals and Dogma ORGANIZED PSYCHOSIS, WITH ROBES Suppose a very earnest-looking young man approached you and said he had a very important message for you. He's heard voices telling him to pass this message along to you; his entire life has changed, and now he has an ongoing relationship with an invisible being who has control of his life. As he speaks, there's a fanaticism in his voice that you find very unsettling. You try to persuade him that the invisible being is imaginary, but he is completely unwilling to listen to reason. Nope, he's not a candidate for a rubber room, at least not in our society. He's a Christian, and his behavior is socially acceptable, even applauded in some circles. Some human beings, since time began, have felt the need to have built everything from cottage industries (like the Branch Davidians) to multi-national corporations (like the Catholic Church) around this need. The modern news media has discovered the shamans learned long ago: there's lots of work in interpreting the obvious for the people around you. The job of the average priest/minister/rabbi is to serve as the go-between in the flock's relationship to its divinity. But is a go-between needed? The clergy certainly thinks so; it keeps them from having to find real jobs. It seems to me that God/Allah/Zeus ought to be able to communicate an important message to us without having to depend on the translating power of admittedly-flawed creations. Notions of right and wrong should not have to depend on buildings or television networks. And they certainly shouldn't depend televangelists in expensive suits (or individual fanatics who get their direction from invisible sources.) It's a scam, boys and girls. What you believe should be between you and your deity--the guy in the collar is just trying to make a fast buck. Fine, so I think the implementation of religion is flawed--but I also think its premise is, too. Belief in a higher power is a popular and unprovable delusion. It is faith--which is acceptable only because our society has deemed it so. There is no more evidence for the existence of a god than there is for little green men from Alpha Centauri; people who believe in the former are religious, people who believe in the latter are nuts. The delusion of the existence of a higher power has been validated by societal pressure, and supported by the force of the religious "corporations". A lot of evil has been justified because "God told me it was right"--physicians who perform abortions are killed because "God told me it was right". Visit the local mental institution--you'll find a high percentage of the truly deranged have a significant religious component to their psychoses. There is a very fine line between faith and madness--and I believe the line itself is illusory. Unfortunately, I'm part of the minority. I must try to live in a world based on irrationality, in an organized, psychotic delusion we call faith. In God we trust…in little green men from Alpha Centauri, who knows? -- "It is seldom that liberty of any kind is lost all at once." -Hume l I feel very sorry for people who have never experienced religious feelings. I don't know why some people are left out, but I think it may be like those who don't receive a certain tv program--they have no antenna, the channel selector is set to the wrong station, or the set just isn't on. I read Isaac Asimov's essay on how hard he worked at writing everything, and how he didn't believe in "divine inspiration." Having experienced it at least twice in my writings (available through http://www.cacr.caltech.edu/~rfire/masonry/toc.html), I can only pity him for his loss. But faith is _not_ something that is to be dealt with by _reason_; that's the whole point. The Christian you allude to above cannot prove to you the existence of God, but neither can _you_ prove that He does _not_ exist. If you're not interested, just say so and walk away. If you object to his trying to convert you to Christianity, who are you to do the equally objectionable by trying to convert him to atheism? >The job of the average priest/minister/rabbi is to serve as the >go-between in the flock's relationship to its divinity. But is a I'm afraid you have a _lot_ to learn about the role of a Rabbi in a Jewish congregation. There is no "go-between" for a Jew in his relationship to God. A Rabbi is a teacher, a man with the learning to lead his congregation in coming to the knowledge needed to obey the precepts that have been given by God. He does not pray on behalf of the congregation in their place before God. As far as Christian clergymen, particularly those of denominations which have a priesthood (as opposed to a pastorate), perhaps you are correct; I won't presume to argue either side, as it is not my particular expertise. But I suggest that you investigate a bit further into the nature and organization of Judaism before you engage in such blithe generalizations. >go-between needed? The clergy certainly thinks so; it keeps them from >having to find real jobs. It seems to me that God/Allah/Zeus ought to >be able to communicate an important message to us without having to >depend on the translating power of admittedly-flawed creations. >Notions of right and wrong should not have to depend on buildings or >television networks. And they certainly shouldn't depend >televangelists in expensive suits (or individual fanatics who get >their direction from invisible sources.) It's a scam, boys and girls. >What you believe should be between you and your deity--the guy in the >collar is just trying to make a fast buck. Name a Jewish televangelist... (I can't begin to _imagine_ what that would be like!) >Fine, so I think the implementation of religion is flawed--but I also >think its premise is, too. Belief in a higher power is a popular and >unprovable delusion. It is faith--which is acceptable only because our >society has deemed it so. There is no more evidence for the existence >of a god than there is for little green men from Alpha Centauri; I have always felt that the evidence for the existence of Deity was the nature, frequency, and consistency of Divine Revelation. As a Reform Jew, I don't believe that my denomination is the only correct religion (only that it is the correct one _for me_) but that the same message has been given to many peoples many times. Of course, they don't always get it right, as when one group thinks it is the only one with the message (God is not so restrictive as that). I am perfectly willing to believe that Mohammed was a prophet--to the Muslims, and that the Great Gurus had the same message for the Sikhs, and so on. As far as I can tell, the basic message is the same; it is our flaws as human beings that lead us to load it up with all sorts of excess baggage (the many strictures of Leviticus, or of the Sharia, or of mediaeval canon law), all of which get in the way of the one basic message: There is One God and He demands of us that we love one another, for we are all His children. A pagan once asked the two great Jewish sages of his time to teach him the entire Torah while he stood on one foot. Shammai, who was noted for a temper, dismissed him as a scoffer. But Hillel said: "Stand on one foot. 'Do not do unto others that which is hateful to you.' That is the whole law, the rest is interpretation; go and study it." The pagan left a changed man. >people who believe in the former are religious, people who believe in >the latter are nuts. The delusion of the existence of a higher power >has been validated by societal pressure, and supported by the force of >the religious "corporations". A lot of evil has been justified because >"God told me it was right"--physicians who perform abortions are >killed because "God told me it was right". Visit the local mental >institution--you'll find a high percentage of the truly deranged have >a significant religious component to their psychoses. The difference between the religiously inspired and the psychotic is what the voices tell them to do. We lock up people who claim that God is telling them to get a big knife and dismember their neighbors. (Yes, I know about the Inquisition. Those people didn't hear God at all; they heard their own evil inclination telling them to take advantage of the power of the Church for their own benefit. Remember what happened to the property of heretics?) >There is a very fine line between faith and madness--and I believe the >line itself is illusory. Unfortunately, I'm part of the minority. I >must try to live in a world based on irrationality, in an organized, >psychotic delusion we call faith. Check out the meaning of "psychotic" and see if it conforms to the use you have made of it in describing the activities of the majority of the human race. Most men of science have been religious, notwithstanding their commitment to logic and rationality in their lives. Some would find it harder to believe in superstrings, a mathematical concept that tries to explain the entire world of physics, but for which we may never have evidence because we cannot afford to build accelerators to explore the energy levels at which superstrings may be distinguished from other hypotheses, than to believe in God. Since a God who created the universe is necessarily outside the universe, the tools with which we deal with the physical world are clearly inappropriate ones to use in dealing with a world outside it. You apparently do not understand the logical contradiction in your insistence on rationality and evidence as a way of dealing with matters for which those intellectual instruments were not designed. To bring this back to Freemasonry, not only do Masons insist on religious toleration, but also in a belief in the transcendent. We use a metaphor of builders' tools to describe morality. We also urge the proper use of tools, symbolic and real. One of the Scottish Rite degrees teaches that reason and science are not the tools for dealing with matters of spirituality and faith. >In God we trust…in little green men from Alpha Centauri, who knows? If you want to be an atheist, that's your privilege. If you have never experienced the touch of God, that's your misfortune. But to say that those whose life has taken them in another direction are "psychotic" and irrational is to go too far and shows a lack of understanding of thousands of years of thought about philosophy and the nature of religion. Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Date: 08-21-96 (02:08) Number: 896 of 899 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais3.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: It's still the same! Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <4vdr3b$grm@news2.cais.com> >To make this a useful newsgroup, simply ignore the clowns... I disagree. The discussions here do serve a purpose of exposing the lies and half-truths, slanders and deceptions that are perpetrated against Freemasonry. I have received a number of email messages from men who, reading both sides of the issue, came to understand who was to be believed and have decided to petition for the degrees. Not a bad harvest for some time spent writing, and surely a thorn in the side of those who hope they are "exposing" Freemasonry. They are indeed exposing it--for what it _is_, not for what _they_ think it is. The "clowns," if unanswered, will seem, to the ignorant, to be unanswerable. Should we allow the false impressions of Freemasonry to be the only ones? I think not. Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Date: 08-21-96 (02:13) Number: 897 of 899 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais3.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: 33deg questions Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <4vdrcs$h18@news2.cais.com> In article <4vdcbp$fqs@jaxnet.southeast.net>, Danny Sale wrote: [snip] >Another decieved one. I know the secrets, and up front they appear not >to be secrets, but, once the meaning is researched, it reveals luciferic >evil. No, you do not know the Royal Secret. Your every action bespeaks your ignorance of it and of most of the true secrets of Masonry. There is no "luciferic evil" (is "luciferic" a word?) in any part of Freemasonry. BTW, tell us where you think you came into possession of the secrets of Freemasonry. They are not written in books as such; the _true_ secrets are not even communicated as such to Masons. They are discovered by each man through the practice of the principles of Freemasonry. No, Mr. Sale, you do not possess the secrets of Freemasonry, and you never will. You do not have it in you to know them, let alone use them. Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Date: 09-03-96 (05:03) Number: 62 of 78 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: spindeek@snowcrest.net, J RICHARD BREWSTER Subj: Re: Brotherhood? Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: SnowCrest Net Message-ID: <322C1E89.5E26@snowcrest.net> Your Name wrote: > > I was raised several months ago. Unfortunately, I feel that there is a > serious lack of brotherhood in my lodge. The lodge seems to be split > into three factions; the rednecks, the old timers and the others. This > contention, wich in my opinion is anything but noble, has turned me off > from even going to practice. Has anyone else dealt with this issue? > > At times the Worshipfull Master is discussed in a very demeaning > manner. He is a friend of mine, but I am not sure it would be a good > idea to tell him, it may make things worse. > > Any suggestions? It is a condition of life on this planet that we share it will all conditions of humanity. I am saddened that you ran into this unfortunate situation but it is by no means unique. I have found the same thing in church where we should all be brothers and sisters, I have found it in the Marine Corps where faith, trust, and fellowship with your fellow Marine is what makes us what we are, and I have found it in my family which should be one of the most sacred and loving relationships you can find this side of the Kingdom. It is inescapable that in Masonry as in life we will find those who join for the wrong reasons, or joined for the right reasons but let the world and its ills distance us from reason and right. The only thing that can be done is proceed with integrity, courage, kindness, and the spirit of brotherly love. Remember, we are all trying to improve ourselves... its why we are Masons to begin with. That, of course, implies that we all have room for improvement. Some of us are farther along the road than others and it is our duty to help them. If possible it might be well to remind those who speak ill of the Worshipful Master that he too, is human and has his lessons to learn. If they do not like him for who he is it is their duty as brothers to help him, not to degrade him. I recall an incident in my church where a local leader was viewed with less than acceptance by the congregation. One of the officials responsible for placing him in his calling remonstrated us with the words, "Did you ever think that maybe the Lord gave him his calling not for your benefit, but for his that he may grow". Perhaps that same theme could be used in the case of your lodge. The worst thing you can do is to leave your lodge and not attempt to improve the situation. You have placed yourself on a road of improvement and growth in Masonry. For your own sake don't abandon it because of a lack of growth on the part of others. "He ain't heavy, He's my Brother" Rick Brewster Trinty Lodge #27 Weaverville Ca. Date: 09-03-96 (09:24) Number: 63 of 78 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: afn47228@afn.org, ROBERT MITCHELL BRANCH Subj: Re: freemasonry and christianity Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Message-ID: > Your religious beliefs are your own. The start of this post was an > assertion by a mason to a Christian that Freemasonry is compatible with > Christianity. Given the controversy over that topic, which includes > condemations by Popes and arguments by Christian Fundamentalists that > Freemasonry can be classified as Satanic, it seemed appropriate to post > some opposing views. Certainly, your "tolerance" appears to extend to > avowed Satanists and racists. It also worked to protect the murders of > Captain William Morgan around 1830 and appears to have protected the > assassins of President John F. Kennedy. Certainly the leadership of the > investigation which followed the assassination was largely Masonic. > > Acacia Press, Incorporated > http://www.crocker.com/~acacia/index.html > PO BOX 154, Montague, MA 01351 > > > > Is there any proof that Masons killed William Morgan....? If so, I haven't seen any. How did Masons protect the assasins of President Kennedy? Can you prove that there were "assasins"? No you cannot, how do I know this, because if you could you would have produced the evidence, so you could make some money off of it. No one has been able to prove it, because even if the events seem to dictate that there were more than one assasin, there is no concrete evidence. There is only vague ideas, and theories thrown around by people who wish life was more like a Mission Impossible movie. Why would the Masons protect Kenndy's assasins? What would we gain? How would the Mason's work together one this earth shattering ordeal....seeing as there is no Nation wide organization to link state lodges? If we did how come not on Mason has ever had a guilty concience and told the truth? I can tell you why....because Masons had nothing to do with it! I realize that this may come as a blow to your fragile grasp on reality, but it is true. Please don't run out and do anything rash, like get abducted by aliens or stumble on a UFO crash site guarded by the military, why don't you take another prozac and go back to watching re-runs of The Prisoner? R.M. Branch onsite.computer.solutions.inc afn47228@afn.org Date: 09-04-96 (04:23) Number: 83 of 96 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais3.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: freemasonry and christianity Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <50j08v$1fo@news2.cais.com> Misinformed anti-Masons love to quote the portion of the apron lecture which refers to rectitude of conduct as being "essentially necessary to to his gaining admission into the" afterlife. Now, I am a mathematician by training, and I am accustomed to many theorems stated in terms of "necessary" and "sufficient." But even the layman should be able to distinguish between rectitude of conduct being _necessary_ to achieve salvation and its being _sufficient_. To say that it is necessary is to say that those whose conduct on earth is execrable will not receive the rewards of a well-spent life. But to say that something is necessary does not mean that it alone is enough. In other words, criticizing Freemasonry on the basis of this phrase is simply obtuse. Do these "Christians" believe that thieves and murderers are really going to be saved if they profess the Christian faith, regardless of their continuing evil deeds? What a preposterous notion! For the Christian, faith in Jesus is essential, but so is the need to do good works, as the book of James makes quite clear. For members of other religions, clearly a different set of beliefs apply. Masonry simply seeks to reinforce the admonition to engage in moral conduct found in _all_ religions, not to address the details of any specific religion. This is because Masonry is _not_ a religion, but a moral philosophy, and it therefore seeks to teach morality, not principles of salvation. Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Date: 09-04-96 (14:32) Number: 84 of 96 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: rfire@cais3.cais.com, DR ROGER M FIRESTONE Subj: Re: Prince Hall Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Sent via CAIS Internet Message-ID: <50k3uc$9sq@news2.cais.com> Prince Hall Lodges are regular to the extent that they are recognized as regular, just as are any other Lodges. From the PHA viewpoint, much of George Washington Masonry is "irregular," while they themselves are regular. Allen Roberts, a Past District Deputy Grand Master in Virginia and author of considerable reputation, points out that the legitimacy of the original PHA Grand Lodge ought to be no different from that of the Grand Lodge of Virginia, which was created by the independent action of four Lodges holden under other GLs, since the original PHA GL constituted itself in the same manner and its constituting Lodge had a legitimate charter from an English Grand Lodge, as did the original Lodges of GW Masonry in the New World. As has been mentioned numerous times, a doctrine of exclusive geographic jurisdiction grew up in the United States due to the conflict between Grand Lodges trying to organize new territory during the westward expansion of the young country. This doctrine prevented PHA GLs from being recognized in the entire US. Other countries never developed the concept of exclusive geographic jurisdiction, though, and it appears to be a hurdle that can be overcome. (An issue that the doctrine addresses, and one reason some are loath to abandon it, is the question of what Masonic law applies for an offense committed by a Mason in a jurisdiction with multiple Grand Lodges. GLs do not agree on some of the finer points of Masonic practice--in DC, for example, a Lodge bulletin must publicize the name, address, age, and occupation of a petitioner; in Virginia, doing so is absolutely forbidden.) There have always been a number of Masons of African origin or descent in GW Masonry, certainly outside the US, and to a minor degree in the US (Alpha #116 in New Jersey is a very old Lodge that has always been largely black). So the claims that Masonry is "institutionally" racist are simply false: Nowhere in Masonic landmarks or law will one find any mention of race as a criterion for membership. To be sure, Masonic practice has not always lived up to its ideals, and it takes only one misguided Mason who grew up in the 1920s South to cast a negative ballot on a petition, notwithstanding the clear statements of a Grand Master that racism is ignoble and unMasonic behavior. Somewhat over a dozen Grand Lodges in various states have recognized PHA GLs for purposes of intervisitation, if not dual membership (I am given to understand that PHA does not permit dual or plural membership, anyway). So far as I know, all of the buildings are still standing, and there has been no mass exodus from Lodges on either side. A few GLs in the American South have taken a stand against such recognition by other GLs, an action I consider reprehensible. Whom a GL chooses to recognize, so long as they are not in violation of our Ancient Landmarks--and PHA is not--should be of no concern in the issue of mutual recognition. (For the GL of Georgia to require me to obtain permission of the Grand Secretary just to visit a Lodge there because my GL [Minnesota] has recognized PHA Lodges is, in my opinion, tanatamount to a breach of fraternal relations. Either the GL of MN is recognized or it is not. There is no intermediate concept of vetting individual Brothers at the Grand Lodge level. What is Georgia _afraid_ of? They aren't being asked to honor PHA of MN dues cards!) Well, I know what the southerners are afraid of: I have recently heard that the UGLE is considering withdrawing fraternal recognition of certain GLs in the US because Masons holding UGLE dues cards, but who are of African origin/descent, are being denied visitation rights in parts of the US. If this were to happen, it would be scandalous; in my opinion, the few troglodytes who are behind this behavior in states I won't name in detail ought to remember that Masonry is supposed to be universal and keep their blind spot out of Lodge business. Most Masons are not racists, but a few who are can discredit an entire institution. (As someone reminded us recently, the good deeds of a Mason go unnoticed, but one transgression will cause the profane to blame the entire Craft. And there are enough jokens and dsales to look gleefully for opportunities to slander a million men for the actions of one or two. Hey, why is it that it doesn't work on televangelists after Jimmy and Tammy Faye?) At least in DC, we have little (I wish I could say "nothing," but I have heard remarks, at least, that I would prefer not to hear from fellow Masons) to be ashamed of in this respect. Washington, DC is a truly international city and its Masonry reflects that. You will see men of all races and religions in its Lodges and among its Grand Officers. It is long past time for certain other US jurisdictions to follow this example. (And, no, DC has yet to establish relations with PHA--but remember that it is the custom that the newer GL request this of the older, and I don't think that PHA has chosen to do so; they have pride in their own organization, it so happens, and a tradition of which they can be proud. Perhaps _they_ don't need _us_.) Roger M. Firestone, 32 KCCH Date: 09-04-96 (10:10) Number: 103 of 115 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: laurentj@altern.com, LAURENT J: Subj: French Freemasonry Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry,alt.masonic.members Organization: Own Organization Message-ID: <841830731.13672@dejanews.com> Reply-To: laurentj@altern.com Hye Bro:. , Does anyone know how is french freemasonry organized ? Well, here are some informations about it. First, in France, freemasonry is not unified. The main grand lodge is the oldest. It is called the Grand Orient of France. It works with the french rite. The second main grand lodge is the Grand Lodge of France. His members are Ancient and Accepted FreeMasons of the Scottish rite. The scottish rite includes blue lodges but there is a supreme council for 4th-33rd degrees. The third grand lodge is the National French Grand Lodge. It works with the English Emulation rite. After, there is a Women Freemasonry, a very active one. Every masons can meet themselves into different lodges but Men use to go into men lodges. Women are not allowed to come into men lodges but men are allowed to go into women lodges. That is why I can say that Mason women use to work hard in their lodges. In theory, National French Grand Lodge has no relationship with others grand lodges. But this is an only theory because in a practical way it is very different... Its Grand Master is the only member who doesn't use to visit others grand lodges :-D . Main grand lodges are regular; they apply Anderson's constitutions and bligations. Only one is recognised by the united Grand Lodge of England. Please gimme your opinion about it. Fraternally. Laurent J:. -MM- Steward ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This article was posted to Usenet via the Posting Service at Deja News: http://www.dejanews.com/ [Search, Post, and Read Usenet News!] Date: 09-05-96 (03:10) Number: 117 of 136 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: raykeat@atcon.com, RAYKEAT Subj: Re: Brotherhood? Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Atlantic Connect Message-ID: <50lg9c$j9u@thor.atcon.com> Reply-To: raykeat@atcon.com username@metrolink.net (Your Name) wrote: >I was raised several months ago. Unfortunately, I feel that there is a >serious lack of brotherhood in my lodge. The lodge seems to be split >into three factions; the rednecks, the old timers and the others. This >contention, wich in my opinion is anything but noble, has turned me off >from even going to practice. Has anyone else dealt with this issue? >At times the Worshipfull Master is discussed in a very demeaning >manner. He is a friend of mine, but I am not sure it would be a good >idea to tell him, it may make things worse. >Any suggestions? THis is a big problem which I believe affects many lodges. There tends to be a feeling of separation between "cliques" within a lodge. My lodge is very good in this respect, but it was one of my major concerns when I joined that I would not be accepted by the 'older' brethren. If this is the case (or if it is the rednecks or whatever) it might be a good idea for you to approach the brethren involved and remind them of the promises they made in their obligations. Perhaps it is time for them to deal with you on the level so that you can square these matters up. Fraternally Raymond G. Keating, M.M. PS you may e-mail any comments directly to me at eafcmm@atcon.com. I welcome your thoughts on the matter. Date: 09-06-96 (16:41) Number: 131 of 136 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: ldjones@concentric.net, LEONARD JONES Subj: Re: Dual Membership Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Innovative Technical Solutions Message-ID: <3230B6BB.2123@concentric.net> Gregory Hunt wrote: > > I am a member of the California and Hawaii Jurisdiction of Prince Hall > Masons. To my knowledge none of the Grand Lodges holding membership in > the Prince Hall Grand Masters Conference which constitutes our family > have in place the concept of dual membership. Since having membership in > a lodge is a pass for admission into other lodges that recognize your > membership, why would there be a need for dual membership? Let me add > this, when I asked the question of someone I was told that it allows you > to support the other lodge. My response to that was you could simply > send the other lodge a donation. Perhaps there is a bigger picture that > I am missing, if so, please explain it. Thanks! > -- > Gregory Hunt, C.L.P.I. > The Internet Connection > http://www.netcom.com/~ghuntnyc/ Bro. Greg - - The practice of dual membership is of relatively recent origin. Traditionally, Master Masons who desired to alter their lodge affiliation were obligated to leave their original lodges by seeking a demit (Latin: "send from") from their home lodge. They could then take the demit to a new lodge where they could seek a new lodge affiliation through due investigation and an affirmative ballot. While the demit was in effect, an unaffiliated mason - not being a member of a duly consituted lodge - was not entitled to the priviledges of a M.M. Further, the relationship with the lodge of origin was severed and could only be restored by returning to the original lodge via the same demit process. I don't know what practices have been followed in the PH GL's, but I expect that, as with many other things, they are similar to the practices of the other US GL's. Many masons have a very strong attachment to their home lodges, so this process was never popular. My dad, for example, was a mason from the age of 21 until his death at age 70. He was entered, passed, and raised in Frank Welch Lodge #75 in his hometown of Sidney, NE. He left Sidney as a young man and never returned, except for brief visits while passing thru on I-80. He lived in Cheyenne, WY virtually all of his adult life, except during WWII. Although he was a frequent attendee at Cheyenne's 4 blue lodges and very active as a DeMolay advisor, he was very attached to his home lodge (despite the fact that he had not attended there in many years) and never affiliated with a Cheyenne lodge. The concept of dual membership was adopted by many GL's in the years following WWII, in response to a more mobile masonic membership - although I understand it is still not permitted in some jurisdictions. This allows members to continue their membership in their home town while being full participants in lodge activities in their current locale. EA's and FC's are not permitted dual membership - they are considered the "unfinished work" of the lodge where they were initiated and remain under the jurisdiction of same until they are raised. This is why degrees for candidates not belonging to the lodge doing the work is said to be performed "by courtesy" for the candidate's home lodge. Other masonic customs are consistent. For example, members who are dropped for non-payment of dues must cure their situation with their original lodge before they can apply to affiliate with a new lodge or receive other masonic benefits. Here's my $.02 worth of philosophy on this: These customs arose in an era when it was not unusual for young men to be born, raised, educated, married, employed, retired, and buried in the same town - often in the same neighborhood or on the same family farm. Although some young men went away to college or to the service, most returned to the towns of their birth. In this conservative hometown environment, a young man who moved around too much or who would forgo steady employment might well disqualify himself for masonic membership by being considered a libertine or a fool. No more. Sweeping human events (Great Depression, WWII, etc.) and technological developments (TV, computers, etc.) have put an end to that era. In the US, we live in a mobile society where home, job, friends, etc. etc. can change in a matter of days - if not hours. Our current society is not "user-friendly" to the kind of life-long friendships and associations that my father and his contemporaries sought by joining the masonic fraternity. Our policies and procedures are outdated in many ways. And they are often thought of as being as immutable as the landmarks of the order. We should make it easier for interested men to find the fraternity, to join it, to participate, and to remain active through career changes, moves, etc. I'm not sure how these things can be done, but I know they must be. The answer why is obvious in answering the question, "Why did you become a Master Mason?" l Date: 09-08-96 (18:10) Number: 173 of 180 (Refer# NONE) To: ALL From: acacia@rmc1.crocker.com, ACACIA PRESS, INC Subj: Masons & Kennedy Read: (N/A) Status: PUBLIC MESSAGE Conf: alt.freemasonry (12) Read Type: GENERAL (A) (+) Newsgroups: alt.freemasonry Organization: Crocker Communciations (crocker.com) Message-ID: Here's an update of response to a Freemasons who challenged the notion that Masons were involved in the Kennedy assassination cover-up > Why would the Masons protect Kenndy's assasins? What would we gain? How > would the Mason's work together one this earth shattering ordeal....seeing > as there is no Nation wide organization to link state lodges? If we did how > come not on Mason has ever had a guilty concience and told the truth? > > I can tell you why....because Masons had nothing to do with it! I realize > that this may come as a blow to your fragile grasp on reality, but it is > true. Please don't run out and do anything rash, like get abducted by > aliens or stumble on a UFO crash site guarded by the military, why don't you > take another prozac and go back to watching re-runs of The Prisoner? > > > R.M. Branch > onsite.computer.solutions.inc > afn47228@afn.org > One need look no further than the Masonic publications to find the Masonic lunatics who might want Kennedy killed. The level of hostility that Freemasons felt toward Kennedy was documented in February 1960 issue of New Age magazine, a Masonic publication, where Luther A. Smith, Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite, Southern Jurisdiction, told his readers: "whatever bigotry is in evidence in the United States is exhibited solely by the Roman Catholic hierarchy; that the Canon Law of the Roman Church and the directives of the Pope validate the fears of the people that the dual allegiance of American Catholics is a present danger to our free institutions, and lastly that the people in passing upon the qualifications of a Catholic candidate for the Presidency will be guided by their knowledge of history and their great store of plain old-fashioned common horse sense, and their innate caution not to gamble when their LIBERTIES AND THE NATIONAL SECURITY ARE AT STAKE (emphasis added). Among American citizens there should be no question or suspicion of allegiance to any foreign power, but in the case of the Roman Catholic citizen, his church is the guardian of his conscience and asserts that he must obey its laws and decrees even if they are in conflict with the Constitution and laws of the United States." So we have Masonic crazies asserting NATIONAL SECURITY issues over the potential election of a Catholic, John F. Kennedy. Mind you, this is Masonic leadership. Now add to this the fact, documented by Masonic sources (see below) , that the Masons controlled the investigation into the Kennedy assassination and you have legitimate concerns over the honesty of the investigation. Most Americans believe a conspiracy existed. Comparatively few know that members of a secret society, hostile to a Kennedy presidency, presided over the assassination investigation. As for the maintenance of a secret. Freemasons, as demonstrateded by the legend of Hiram Abiff, have always focused on teaching the membership to keep their secrets. Hiram, the Masonic Christ figure, was raised from the grave because he kept his secrets. Those who violate Masonic secrets can expect retaliation, those who keep them, like Hiram, can expect rewards. A longer article on the probable involvement of Freemason's in the Kennedy assassination is available at the WWW site below. As is partial text from a variety of Masonic exposes and the "Proceedings of the US Anti-Masonic Convention", a record of the 1st third party political convention in the US. Critics of Freemasonry include President John Q. Adams. In his book, Freemasonry in American History, the Masonic scholar, A. E. Roberts identifies some of the Masonic participants in the investigation of the Kennedy assaination, "Johnson had received the Entered Apprentice Degree in Johnson City Lodge No. 561, Texas, on October 30, 1937. Reasons for him going no farther are unclear. Until the 1850s becoming an Entered Apprentice made a man a full member of the lodge conferring the degree. During the 1850s all Grand Lodges adopted laws making the Master Mason (or Third) degree the criteria for a man to be considered a Freemason. Before then, all Masonic business was conducted in the First Degree (and still is in some foreign countries). With the adoption of the new law, business can be considered only in a Master Mason Lodge. One of Johnson's first acts was to order the Federal Bureau of Investigation to check every aspect of the assassination. The FBI was headed by J. EDGAR HOOVER, who had become a member of Federal Lodge No. 1, District of Columbia, on November 9, 1920... But the public wanted more answers concerning the murder of the President than any agency could provide. So, on January 29, 1963, Johnson issued an executive order creating a special commission. It would take the name of the man chosen to head it, Chief Justice EARL WARREN. Warren, a Past Grand Master of Masons in California, was joined on the Commission by two other known Freemasons. They were Senator RICHARD B. RUSSELL, a member of Winder Lodge No. 33, Georgia, and Representative GERALD R. FORD of Michigan. John Sherman Cooper, Hale Boggs, Allen W. Dulles, and John J. McCloy made up the balance of the Commission." (pg 379) It is difficult to reliably determine if other members of the Warren Commission were also Freemasons, because no published records of membership exist. Even Mr. A. E. Roberts, who should have excellent access to masonic sources of information, qualifies his list of Masonic participants on the Warren Commision to describe 'known Freemasons'. Acacia Press, Incorporated (note--anti Masonry!!) http://www.crocker.com/~acacia/index.html PO BOX 154, Montague, MA 01351